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Old 25-08-2015, 17:07   #46
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Jaguar [and the rest of you:-)]

Somebody said "listen to your wife", or words to that effect. So lemme tell you the story of TrentePieds:

My Beloved came into my life long after a man should have had any right to be so fortunate. On a New Year's Day we're "hanging out" and MB sez "whaddaya wanna do?", and for a joke I sez "Go sailing".

MB: "Great! Lets go look at some boats"
Me: "Nah - you don't want a boat"
MB: "Oh come-on. Let's go look at some boats!"
Me: "YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!!!"
MB (pleadingly): "Oh, pooleeeeeze - let's go look at some boats"
Me: "Well, you can buy a Mirage 27 for the cost of a coupla cases of good wine, so what the heck"

We get to the Mirage dealers. There are no Mirages, but the are no less than three C&C27s on the hard. We clamber up into one of them. MB looks into the darkness of a cramped, dirty cabin and sez "No way! Not in a million years!" I say: "Told you! YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!"

As MB is coming down the ladder she scans the basin and sez "That one over there, that one, the one with those lovely windows - can we go look at it?"
Me: "Sure we can look, but YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!"

So I get the key from the broker and we go look. The moment MB is in the cabin (raised deckhouse, lotsa light, nice interior, but useless for any serious sailing), MB sez "Oooh - I LOVE this!" and I say "YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!!!"
MB senses I'm getting determined so she folds.

4 months later I'm messing about on the 'puter one morning and I go: "Hey - lookit that! TrentePieds is still on the listings!"
MB: "WRITE THE MAN A CHEQUE!!"
So I folded.

Well, TrentePieds is essentially a floating gazebo (which I think is sort of what you said you wanted). MB came to sailing at retirement age, and she's shaping up very nicely as a deck hand. Because she loves the boat. As for me: "Happy wife- happy life". I can live with all sorts of things I'd prefer to have otherwise, such as a mast furling main, just so long as MB is happy and enthusiastic.

Now, TrentePieds is (obviously) 30 feet. JUST big enuff IMO, for a man and his maid to spend a coupla months, or even six, cruising, yet small enuff that a man and his maid can maintain 'er as a DIY project without busting a gut or the bank account.

One of the most useful tools in boat maintenance is Occam's Razor. "Redooz entities". KISS. Eschew as many electrical devices as you can. Rely on Mr. Armstrong. In a 30 footer that even applies to the ground tackle. Scupper the capstan. It'll be a few years yet before I can no longer heave in a 35 pound anchor with a hundred feet of 3/8" chain rode. Sheet winches are nice but unnecessary. It's all in the timing, you learn that best in dinghies, but there is no reason your can't learn it in a Mirage 27. Or a Grampian 26. Both of them are wonderful sailers, but the Mirage has the advantage of an inboard engine. A 2-banger Yanmar is quite sufficient.

Coming back to sheet winches for a moment: Their great value in a 27 or a 30 footer is as emergency capstans. If the ground tackle gets a bit heavy, just lead the rode aft to a sheet winch and crank away :-)

TrentePieds
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Old 25-08-2015, 17:11   #47
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Greetings Bear!

C&C 30s a sweet boat.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Yes it is, love it, a lot of fun and fast, would be keeping it but need something a wee bit bigger to go south.
This is a great forum, been reading it for years but this was my first post, lol.
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Old 25-08-2015, 17:17   #48
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Jaguar [and the rest of you:-)]

Somebody said "listen to your wife", or words to that effect. So lemme tell you the story of TrentePieds:

My Beloved came into my life long after a man should have had any right to be so fortunate. On a New Year's Day we're "hanging out" and MB sez "whaddaya wanna do?", and for a joke I sez "Go sailing".

MB: "Great! Lets go look at some boats"
Me: "Nah - you don't want a boat"
MB: "Oh come-on. Let's go look at some boats!"
Me: "YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!!!"
MB (pleadingly): "Oh, pooleeeeeze - let's go look at some boats"
Me: "Well, you can buy a Mirage 27 for the cost of a coupla cases of good wine, so what the heck"

We get to the Mirage dealers. There are no Mirages, but the are no less than three C&C27s on the hard. We clamber up into one of them. MB looks into the darkness of a cramped, dirty cabin and sez "No way! Not in a million years!" I say: "Told you! YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!"

As MB is coming down the ladder she scans the basin and sez "That one over there, that one, the one with those lovely windows - can we go look at it?"
Me: "Sure we can look, but YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!"

So I get the key from the broker and we go look. The moment MB is in the cabin (raised deckhouse, lotsa light, nice interior, but useless for any serious sailing), MB sez "Oooh - I LOVE this!" and I say "YOU DON'T WANT A BOAT!!!"
MB senses I'm getting determined so she folds.

4 months later I'm messing about on the 'puter one morning and I go: "Hey - lookit that! TrentePieds is still on the listings!"
MB: "WRITE THE MAN A CHEQUE!!"
So I folded.

Well, TrentePieds is essentially a floating gazebo (which I think is sort of what you said you wanted). MB came to sailing at retirement age, and she's shaping up very nicely as a deck hand. Because she loves the boat. As for me: "Happy wife- happy life". I can live with all sorts of things I'd prefer to have otherwise, such as a mast furling main, just so long as MB is happy and enthusiastic.

Now, TrentePieds is (obviously) 30 feet. JUST big enuff IMO, for a man and his maid to spend a coupla months, or even six, cruising, yet small enuff that a man and his maid can maintain 'er as a DIY project without busting a gut or the bank account.

One of the most useful tools in boat maintenance is Occam's Razor. "Redooz entities". KISS. Eschew as many electrical devices as you can. Rely on Mr. Armstrong. In a 30 footer that even applies to the ground tackle. Scupper the capstan. It'll be a few years yet before I can no longer heave in a 35 pound anchor with a hundred feet of 3/8" chain rode. Sheet winches are nice but unnecessary. It's all in the timing, you learn that best in dinghies, but there is no reason your can't learn it in a Mirage 27. Or a Grampian 26. Both of them are wonderful sailers, but the Mirage has the advantage of an inboard engine. A 2-banger Yanmar is quite sufficient.

Coming back to sheet winches for a moment: Their great value in a 27 or a 30 footer is as emergency capstans. If the ground tackle gets a bit heavy, just lead the rode aft to a sheet winch and crank away :-)

TrentePieds
ThirtyFeet, great post. I don't think the op was asking about sheet winches on a 30', he was asking about powered winches

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Old 25-08-2015, 17:38   #49
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Options:
1.) Do you want to sail?
2.) Do you want a water condo?
3.)Do you want to spend more time working on your boat than sailing?

If you want to sail: an aerodynamic 27 foot sloop, or less, with an outboard motor, fin keel, spade rudder, and light to moderate displacement. Throw in a working head, icebox, gps, depth sounder, good sails including a spinnaker and you have the perfect GL boat. There is nowhere on the GL's that you need anything more and you'll encounter a greater percentage of lighter winds than the feared sail bangers. Bigger is not better unless you're a harbor hound. Good luck and good sailing . . . yes, I actually mean sailing!
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Old 25-08-2015, 18:00   #50
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Options:
1.) Do you want to sail?
2.) Do you want a water condo?
3.)Do you want to spend more time working on your boat than sailing?

If you want to sail: an aerodynamic 27 foot sloop, or less, with an outboard motor, fin keel, spade rudder, and light to moderate displacement. Throw in a working head, icebox, gps, depth sounder, good sails including a spinnaker and you have the perfect GL boat. There is nowhere on the GL's that you need anything more and you'll encounter a greater percentage of lighter winds than the feared sail bangers. Bigger is not better unless you're a harbor hound. Good luck and good sailing . . . yes, I actually mean sailing!
I have to agree. I spent five years sailing this "perfect boat" usually with my wife and 2 little ones aboard. When the kids got bigger, the wife "volunteered" to stay home so we could have more room below.

Its a C&C25, meets all the specs mentioned above. We actually SAILED everywhere, including into and out of our marina slip. I reefed often, and went out in all sorts of weather. With a fin keel draft of less than 4' we could go anywhere, and we did. We had great adventures, and it cost very little to buy and keep. I was sad when I sold that boat.

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Old 25-08-2015, 18:19   #51
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

All the responses are a wonderful thing but please, if I don't respond to your particular post, it's not personal...there's just so many.

To answer a few of the questions posed...

1. I want to sail, not spend my time working on the boat.
2. I want larger because it will afford the most comfort below decks.
3. The power winches are not a thing I thought I needed. Was told I did but upon looking into furlers have decided I don't need them.
4. When I say further I mean that we may, at some point, decide to take a boat on a more adventurous trip down the Eastern Seaboard of the US.
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Old 25-08-2015, 18:34   #52
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Jag, we're trying to help but at the same time giving you the gears a bit, I don't think anyone on here would think you would actually put power winches on a 30' boat.

1. You will spend a lot of time working on the boat, no way out of it.
2. Large within reason makes sense.
3. Put hydraulic winches on, electrical won't cut it.
4. We knew what you meant, we were just giving you the gears.
5. I've seen Hamburkings boat- from the outside only, never been below. She really is perfect for what you want and you'd be practically be steeling her for that price. She'll likely give less headaches than a 10 year old boat that's been neglected.

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Old 26-08-2015, 10:19   #53
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Jag, we're trying to help but at the same time giving you the gears a bit, I don't think anyone on here would think you would actually put power winches on a 30' boat.

1. You will spend a lot of time working on the boat, no way out of it.
2. Large within reason makes sense.
3. Put hydraulic winches on, electrical won't cut it.
4. We knew what you meant, we were just giving you the gears.
5. I've seen Hamburkings boat- from the outside only, never been below. She really is perfect for what you want and you'd be practically be steeling her for that price. She'll likely give less headaches than a 10 year old boat that's been neglected.

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Giving the new guy the gears huh? So that's how it is eh? Alrighty then...I can see I'm going to enjoy it here. Can't take life too seriously. None of us are going to make it out alive!! lol
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Old 26-08-2015, 10:25   #54
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

So the more I read through the posts and gather together the various ideas and suggestions, the more I'm thinking that a 30' is probably not altogether right, in terms of size, for what we're hoping to get out of a boat. While I definitely need more book learn'in, I need more time on various boats of larger size to get a better feel of how they'd accommodate our wants. But as I've spent more time looking through the floor plans of 30 footers the more I'm thinking they may be a bit too snug for our tastes.

The other thing I'm seeing is that I need A LOT more education regarding various options in terms of rigging, navigation, etc. I mean I didn't even know what a lot of the things are that you guys are talking about! Tells me my research has just begun. If I'm going to evolve into a serious cruiser in my retirement, I'd better get cracking.

I appreciate all the thoughts, ideas, opinions, suggestions and encouragement from everyone. Thank you.
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Old 26-08-2015, 14:05   #55
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

In my experience, YOU don't choose the boat, the boat chooses YOU!

In other words, to quote M.Jagger's famous song about buying boats: "you can't always get what you want, you get what you need!"

Life is too short to spend a very long time searching for that "perfect" boat. While you are searching, why not buy something non-perfect, cheap, and local, so you can sail and learn and have fun...while keeping your eye out for the perfect one.

CS+N said..."if you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with." I'm not sure they were referring to boats, but most likely they were.
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Old 26-08-2015, 14:16   #56
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
In my experience, YOU don't choose the boat, the boat chooses YOU!

In other words, to quote M.Jagger's famous song about buying boats: "you can't always get what you want, you get what you need!"

Life is too short to spend a very long time searching for that "perfect" boat. While you are searching, why not buy something non-perfect, cheap, and local, so you can sail and learn and have fun...while keeping your eye out for the perfect one.

CS+N said..."if you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with." I'm not sure they were referring to boats, but most likely they were.

This boat tried to choose me. lol

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/att...ateauferro.jpg
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:01   #57
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Jaguar 001 said: "I've no interest at all in racing" . . . snicker! & LOL . . . Yes, we've all said that at some time Jag.
The only time you know you are not racing is when your wife says she "doesn't like racing, and you can sail your boat alone if you insist" other than that, whenever another sailboat appears on the horizon, you can bet your sweet bibby . . . THE RACE IS ON!
Like it or not, racing, is what and how you hone your skills as a sailboat skipper.
Fanshawe YC eh? Seems to me I started out there in the 60's. Loved the Pumpkin Regattas every year.
At that time, I purchased my very first sailboat, a Cygnus, 20' fixed keel, open day-sailer, built by Clarkcraft Ind., of Niagara Falls, ON.
Originally designed and built by George Hinterhoeller (of 24' Shark fame) prior to him becoming one of the principals of C&C Yachts who took over production of the Shark. A great little family boat to which I progressed after the Cygnus . . . Ah, those memories of yesteryear.
Please say "Hi" from Bob Taylor, to anyone who may (very doubtful) remember me from the 60's and very early 70's. I'm in my 80's now, and sail the wide Pacific . . . well, at least The Straits of Georgia and around Vancouver Island . . . in my newly launched, self built Passage 24/30 Cutter . . . It's hard to beat the west coast for cruising.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:13   #58
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

VASCO of 6,441 posts . . . with thatr many, how do you find time to sail???
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:44   #59
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

A motorized winch on Catalina 30?? Good grief. A 30 ft. boat is a great start. Do the legwork and climb aboard at least a half dozen different boats. The survey is a must of course.
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Old 27-08-2015, 11:02   #60
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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VASCO of 6,441 posts . . . with thatr many, how do you find time to sail???
I sail 12 months a year. Nearly 7 months solid from Nov/Dec to May and mostly on weekends the rest of the year. The majority of my posts are during the summer. Looking around there are few members here that have been here since 2004. I think Gord May might have 5 times more posts than I do.
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