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Old 25-08-2015, 12:48   #31
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Rule of thumb cruising in the Great Lakes, you will sail 50% and motor 50% if you are on any kind of schedule.

I have been sailing on the Great Lakes for over 50 years. I know a little bit about that. But, sailing "on a schedule"? If you HAVE to be somewhere by a certain time, you should be driving.

It's just called planning. Not hard to do with marinas within a days sail or motor. I can motor all day on a single tank of gas with my A4 and have much left over. Pull in, gas up, get a bite, walk the town. SOP on the lakes.

If you need a bit more gas, buy a couple of jerry cans, fill 'em up and strap them to the deck. Easy peasy.

Replacing a perfectly good working motor in a 53 y/o boat is not in my cards. I get along just fine, as do the thousands of folks who maintain A4s in their boats. What is being presented here is a non-issue.
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Old 25-08-2015, 13:08   #32
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
I have been sailing on the Great Lakes for over 50 years. I know a little bit about that. But, sailing "on a schedule"? If you HAVE to be somewhere by a certain time, you should be driving.

It's just called planning. Not hard to do with marinas within a days sail or motor. I can motor all day on a single tank of gas with my A4 and have much left over. Pull in, gas up, get a bite, walk the town. SOP on the lakes.

If you need a bit more gas, buy a couple of jerry cans, fill 'em up and strap them to the deck. Easy peasy.

Replacing a perfectly good working motor in a 53 y/o boat is not in my cards. I get along just fine, as do the thousands of folks who maintain A4s in their boats. What is being presented here is a non-issue.
Crazy, I agree, you would be crazy to swap out a perfectly good A4, but when shopping for a boat I didn't already own, diesel would be a plus for me.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker though if I found the right boat for the right price with an A4.

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Old 25-08-2015, 13:39   #33
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Crazy, I agree, you would be crazy to swap out a perfectly good A4, but when shopping for a boat I didn't already own, diesel would be a plus for me.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker though if I found the right boat for the right price with an A4.

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Agreed on all points!
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Old 25-08-2015, 13:46   #34
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

I suppose if you are on some schedule range may be an issue.
I'm all over eastern Lk Ontario have a 3.5 gallon tank for the outboard, might have used a gallon and a half this season. Most of that was used warming the engine up before leaving or entering my slip.
I sail 95% of the time solo so a tiller pilot and self tailing cockpit winches were a must.
To be honest I use my GPS mostly for depth as I have a transducer networked to it. Most of the time you can see where you're going on the lake.
When I need a powered winch to raise a sail on a 30' boat I'll give up, spend my days sitting on the front porch yelling at the kids to stay off my lawn!
You really don't need much on a sailboat to be safe , I remember well the days before satnav and loran etc. People cruised the world on smaller boats than are "required" today.
To listen to a lot of people you're as good as dead if you leave on a boat under 45' and built before 2014 unless you are ready to replace everything but the hull, can cross 3 oceans on internal fuel, have a watermaker and 5000 gallons in reserve. Solar, wind AND a generator to keep the icemaker going while running the full surround sound entertainment system with a 54" TV.
Get a boat with the basics; learn all about the systems and decide what YOU need on the next one.
Don't need to get out sailing on every boat, a bit of time on deck and down below can really let you know how you think the layout will work. Not much difference in sail handling from one boat to another and you can change this to suit yourself.
One boat mentioned here that I have a lot of experience with is the Alberg 30, beautiful boats from the outside, sail nice if you don't mind how much they heel. Problem in my books is the interior, long narrow dark cave. Typical of the "folk boats".
The guy I bought my boat from bought a Cat 30, nice boat good layout, plenty of room down below for a 30.
Not sure if it is still for sale but there is a Ticon 30 a couple slips down that had a for sale sign all season, hasn't left the dock. Will be going out in a couple days I'll check if it's still for sale and get a number for it. Sucks but work got in the way of sailing this week......
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:11   #35
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

~~Two items to be aware of for boats made for Great Lakes fresh water Sailing.
  1. Tends to be over canvased for the lighter winds than for ocean winds.
  2. Grade of Stainless Steel fittings not always suitable for chlorides~salt water.
When you say go further afield I assume you mean offshore?
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:47   #36
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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I take it you've never motored up the Canadian Coast of Superior? Its 200 miles as the crow flies from Sault St Marie to Marathon with around 0 reliable fuel stops.
Very true. Although there is one reliable stop in Wawa at Buck's Marina. It's a service haven for anyone travelling the Canadian coast between the Sault and Marathon. Between Marathon and Thunder Bay there are now only two marinas with fuel: Red Rock and Nipigon, and those are down in Nipigon Bay and a fair bit off the main Lake.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:54   #37
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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But until he actually BUYS a boat, he'll never learn to be a mechanic, plumber & electrician on a a charter boat, no matter how many he charters.
Oh yeah. But that's why I'm currently leaning toward chartering: right now I want to sail; when I decide I need a serious retirement project I'll *buy* a boat.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:59   #38
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Very true. Although there is one reliable stop in Wawa at Buck's Marina. It's a service haven for anyone travelling the Canadian coast between the Sault and Marathon. Between Marathon and Thunder Bay there are now only two marinas with fuel: Red Rock and Nipigon, and those are down in Nipigon Bay and a fair bit off the main Lake.
I had a feeling you would have more specific details than me if you happened to be reading .

I actually didn't do the Canadian shore because my research revealed so little in the way of harbours.

I went up the Keewena, Copper Head, then across to T-Bay.

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Old 25-08-2015, 14:59   #39
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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I had a feeling you would have more specific details than me if you happened to be reading .

I actually didn't do the Canadian shore because my research revealed so little in the way of harbours.

I went up the Keewena, Copper Head, then across to T-Bay.

Fuel range matters on the super lake.

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Old 25-08-2015, 15:12   #40
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Look at some of the older C&C yachts on sale. A well equipped 33 is for sale in Port Dover and would be a good boat for the lighter winds on the lakes.

As you increase in size remember the tall rig usually means deeper draft and that can be a problem in the lower water years.

Get a survey for sure, and especially look for core water in the deck.

Try to find out where the boat was built and whether it was after C&C switched to vinyl ester from poly.
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Old 25-08-2015, 15:14   #41
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Hi Rowland, first post I see!

Greetings.

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Old 25-08-2015, 15:15   #42
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

Don't get anything smaller than a 30' for the Great Lakes. A smaller boat with an outboard will get you in trouble with hobby horsing in the short waves.
If you get a tall rig be sure to get a double reef in the main. First reef will just take you down to a standard rig.
If you get a shoal draft you won't point as high as a full keel and there aren't many places you can't go in the GL drafting 6'.
Good choice in taking the Canadian Power Squadron course. Continue taking them. You will learn a lot.
I just sailed from Leamington ON to Catawba Island OH yesterday in 25-33 knot winds in my Catalina 36 tall rig with a double reef and no problems.
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Old 25-08-2015, 15:23   #43
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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Don't get anything smaller than a 30' for the Great Lakes. A smaller boat with an outboard will get you in trouble with hobby horsing in the short waves.
If you get a tall rig be sure to get a double reef in the main. First reef will just take you down to a standard rig.
If you get a shoal draft you won't point as high as a full keel and there aren't many places you can't go in the GL drafting 6'.
Good choice in taking the Canadian Power Squadron course. Continue taking them. You will learn a lot.
I just sailed from Leamington ON to Catawba Island OH yesterday in 25-33 knot winds in my Catalina 36 tall rig with a double reef and no problems.
Hmm. I spent the 80's cruising the lower 3 Canadian lakes in my Dads Grampian 23, which is definitely a sub 30' design (with my mom, dad and 2 brothers).

In May I had probably a foot of mud on the leading edge of my rudder (skeg) after transitting the Murray inside the channel with a 4'8" draft.

Sounds like an awesome trip across the Western Basin, thems is good sailing waters .

You never have draft issues in Western Lake Erie with 6' draft?

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Old 25-08-2015, 16:59   #44
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

I have a 1980 C&C 30 that I will most likely be sticking a for sale sign on in the spring, I'm in Sarnia, just something to keep in mind if you like.
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Old 25-08-2015, 17:04   #45
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Re: Best Sailboat for Great Lakes Sailing

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I have a 1980 C&C 30 that I will most likely be sticking a for sale sign on in the spring, I'm in Sarnia, just something to keep in mind if you like.
Greetings Bear!

C&C 30s a sweet boat.

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