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Old 05-11-2014, 07:43   #151
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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Originally Posted by sanibel sailor View Post
Shallow draft is an advantage in a lot of places.

No problems, except... broke the bastard almost going on lee shore beach in a whoop-ass thunderstorm, see SAIL magazine Feb 2014 for write up. Deep keel boat would have been wrecked, I was inside the swim zone markers, 500 feet from shore. Made a new one for $800 or so, rebuild article tentatively accepted for publication in Good Old Boat magazine at some point. I had replaced by SS pennant with Dyneema which is better and more mechanically sound than Nicopress/thimble, easy to "freshen the nip" by retying the knot to the board, even with the boat afloat, and cheaply and easily replaced when needed.
In short, I love my CB. Goes well to windward, less drag downwind, little maintenance required, I expect it will be useful to help trim the helm on long passages or adjust resistance if hove to.
Yes I love my CB on my tartan 40 as well. Dropping board adds 3 feet of draft to baseline 4.75' and makes huge difference to windward


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Old 05-11-2014, 09:10   #152
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Sully,

I wouldn't rule out the better boats from Taiwan, unless you don't want to be saddled with all the exterior teak that is on many of them. I know you made that comment in one of your earlier posts, and that could be a truly legitimate reason to stay away. If you want to keep much of that wood varnished, you'll never truly understand how much work it is to do so -take it from from someone who is doing exactly that. The interior teak, however, is pretty much maintainance free. I've put two coats of varnish on my cabin sole in the 27 years I've owned my boat.

Fortunately, I've never have never personally seen boats with the problems described by some of the posters above. My through hulls are easily accessible bronze seacocks, spars are by Isomat, hardware is Lewmar, Schaffer and the now defunct Nicro Fico, steering is bronze idler pulleys and quadrant with stainless wire and all of the ports are excellent stainless steel opening Manship ports. The interior is stick built, like a wood boat. There are no fiberglass liners that hide parts of the hull or fittings. The entire underside of the deck is accessible by removing panel in the particular section your trying to access. The hull to deck joint is through bolted and heavily glassed over making it strong and waterproof, and you can see the entire joint stem to stern by removing the over head panels in any place you wish to get at it. There is no teak ply in any part of the interior - only solid teak.

Practical Sailor did a review of their Union 36 test boat 3 or 4 years ago you may want to google. I'm sure their positive comments could just as easily be applied to Baba's, Hans Christians, Tayana's and the like as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to talk you, or anyone else, into boat from Taiwan or anywhere else for that matter. But if you find something that's hitting all the right notes for you, get your surveyor and give it a good going through, Taiwan boat or otherwise. Just don't forget all the work exterior teak is! Best of luck in your search Sully.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:57   #153
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Mostly American boats in the list. Is it possible to find American boats (they might suit me) in Northern Europe? Yachtworld suggests not, mainly u.s. Addresses?

I got about usd 60000 to spend. Need something solid, similar specs as thread starter. Would like an aft cabin (or two small) with passage from the saloon). We are a family with small kids. Prefer to buy it in Sweden or neighbor countries, Northern or western Europe.

Should I shy away from wooden boats, e g Colin Archer 39? In the Baltic Sea we don't have the shipworm. Can one protect from it tropical waters where we are heading?
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:51   #154
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

We just spent 2 years with a similar budget and finally gave up and spent twice that and got a really awesome boat. We had these basic perimeters, NO WOOD, NO CORES, NO MORPHODITES. Reason 1, done that been there, lovely ride but the rot is no joke and the paint work endless. Reason 2, older cored boats have had the cores breached in so many ways with installations above and below decks that you end up with lots of mushy spots underfoot and just try and nail that down and fix it, we have and it's not easy, fun or permanent. Number 3, sometime somewhere you are going to have to pass this boat on and there is very little resale in old morphs. You have no factory tests to determine if it's seaworthy, no knowledge of the actual build process.

We went with a boat we fell in love with in the 70's, a Petersen designed Formosa 46.
We had a Taiwanese boat (Defever) with all the number 2's. The "new" one was built in a better yard. I have a thing about stuff floating around in the ocean and running into it and wanted a fully solid thick laid up hull which we got. The full keel is a tracker like no other. The old teak work inside fortunately was never beat up. You can see lots of footwear on the companionway ladders but that reminds us of all the folks who sailed her before us...New Zealand, etc. In CA there are a lot of old craigslist boats almost free because the slip rentals are ridiculous and people can't afford to keep these old ladies anymore. I didn't mention number four, which is there are an awfully lot of people who put years and years worth of their hard earned cash into a dream cruiser and then my goodness suddenly this boat is not their dream anymore, or it's an estate sale. Look for a boat someone else has put some bucks into! Patience can really pay off, if you have cash you are golden as no one makes boat loans on 10 year or older boats that I know of. Don't be afraid to make a lower offer on these. Cash definitely does talk.
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Old 05-11-2014, 17:01   #155
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Is that true? I didn't realize it was so hard to get a loan on a boat?


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Old 05-11-2014, 17:15   #156
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Why would you want to get a loan on a boat?

Unless you are going to live on it, it's not really something you need.

Plus most of them sit at the dock more than they are used.
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Old 05-11-2014, 19:47   #157
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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...It definitely looks like all Down East yachts were made in California...
That is what a brief search turned up for me, too. Furthermore that Henry Morschadt was the builder! He is/one of the founders of Pacific Seacraft and other highly regarded boats. If this is the case, I would expect a much better boat than any Taiwan boat of that era. So my memory must have failed me on this boat--I have no explanation except too many birthdays. So sorry.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1865
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Old 05-11-2014, 20:01   #158
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Sully, what about LeComte boats? built well in the Netherlands many moons ago, getting cheaper now - if you can find one that's worth maintaining. they have teak (coamings, toerails, and all the interior), but the starting price may be low enough to make them attractive - provided you're not buying into a project.

how does this one look here?
1963 LeComte Northeast 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 05-11-2014, 20:21   #159
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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That is what a brief search turned up for me, too. Furthermore that Henry Morschadt was the builder! He is/one of the founders of Pacific Seacraft and other highly regarded boats. If this is the case, I would expect a much better boat than any Taiwan boat of that era. So my memory must have failed me on this boat--I have no explanation except too many birthdays. So sorry.

DOWN EAST 38 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Haha thanks for double checking for me. Good to check the closet for skeletons early on.

I'm liking the Allied Seawind II the more I look at it, especially the cutter version. I'm looking for a boat that will definitely sleep 5 though, and I'm finding it hard to figure out how many actual berths there are on most of these listings.
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Old 05-11-2014, 20:25   #160
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

And how do people feel about some of the older diesel engines on these boats? Should a newer engine be a requirement of the "bulletproof" designation, or is a well maintained diesel engine from the seventies actually reliable enough to take out to sea?
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Old 05-11-2014, 20:54   #161
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

For $30k you have to compromise somewhere.

Berth arrangements are normally pretty easily adapted, no matter the interior.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:38   #162
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

Sully and others,

Any thoughts given to the Allied Princess 36? Seems like nice amount of space and I'm seeing several boats available well below 30k. Capsize ratio of 1.76 and at least one circumnavigation to its credit. Looks like it would need bigger cockpit drains though.

Any opinions or experience with this one, especially in offshore characteristics?
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:50   #163
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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Why would you want to get a loan on a boat?

Unless you are going to live on it, it's not really something you need.

Plus most of them sit at the dock more than they are used.

I guess to get on the terminal boat sooner than later, to avoid investing in the current boat and losing that money in the long run. And also to be able to live on it in the meantime.

Not sure it's advisable. Just that would be my thinking.


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Old 06-11-2014, 06:53   #164
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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Sully, what about LeComte boats? built well in the Netherlands many moons ago, getting cheaper now - if you can find one that's worth maintaining. they have teak (coamings, toerails, and all the interior), but the starting price may be low enough to make them attractive - provided you're not buying into a project.



how does this one look here?

1963 LeComte Northeast 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

That looks like a great boat. Old though. And needs a lot of work. But looks like a great design.


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Old 06-11-2014, 06:58   #165
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Re: Best buy in a solid cruising boat (go anywhere, $30k or less)

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Is that true? I didn't realize it was so hard to get a loan on a boat?


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Sully, it's not that it's so hard to get a loan on a boat. It's just that they have become much more restrictive about what they will/will not finance. We have checked boat financing for older boats within this past year and this is what we have been told.

The general rules:

Nothing older than 20 years. There are exceptions to this of course (according to Trident Funding) but this is going to be mostly high dollar, well known boats in exceptional condition with a high appraisal to loan value.

No loans less than $25K - PERIOD. And you must have a 20% down payment. They only lend 80% of the purchase price, not 80% of the appraisal value.

Looking at Yachtworld there are certainly boats available that fit this criteria, mostly in the 30' range, racer/cruiser types. But if you are hoping to spend your $30K on an older, larger, traditional design (where, IMHO, you will get the most bang for your buck) you will likely not be able to get financing. I'm not saying it can't be done. People manage to find ways to do all sorts of things, but we tried to finance a Cape Dory 30 earlier this year and I made lots and lots of calls and was unable to get it done, even through a company who had financed several boats for us in the past, including our older CD28 before the rules all changed. (Our credit is excellent.) It was in great shape, but it was an early 80's model and they just wouldn't even consider it. Things have gotten much tighter in the financing world over the past few years.

We ended up paying cash for our distressed CD33 and are refitting on the "pay as you go" plan, which we like better anyway because when the refit is done the boat will be paid for and we will have saved ourselves all that interest. But that's only a good option if you want to do the work.
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