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Old 08-03-2014, 22:40   #31
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Where did you get that handicap, I see them rated between 165-174 and the 380's between 174-180
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Old 08-03-2014, 22:48   #32
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

I believe most Island Packets had iron ingots in the keel.
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Old 08-03-2014, 23:08   #33
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Those numbers are from an excel spreadsheet I downloaded from the SoCal regional PHRF site, unknown vintage. I used the RL (Random Leg rating).

NewEngland (Don't know if RL or Bouy), July 2013:
ISLAND PACKET 37 156
ISLAND PACKET 370 183
ISLAND PACKET 38 168
PACIFIC SEACRAFT 37 SD 186

US averages 2005-2011:
ISLAND PACKET 38 171
ISLAND PACKET 380 177

US Averages 1995-2008
PACIFIC SEACRAFT 40 150


Lets assume that a PS40 rates 150 and the IP37 rates 170. If both boats are sailed with full effort to meet the rating, that's a 6nm difference, equal to less than 1 hour per 24 hours of sailing, or an 18hr difference for a 30 day passage.

In reality, if cruising they will not be sailed up to their ratings and they will be overloaded so the difference is likely to be smaller.
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Old 09-03-2014, 00:19   #34
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
The PHRF info I have indicates that IP380 rated 123 and the PS42 rated 129. Whatever the effects of the full keel were on performance they were vastly outweighed by other factors such as sail area. These were the two models I could find closest to what you and the OP listed.

Safety considerations are a different matter. Where did you learn IP was using concrete for ballast?
Sailnet:
lead ballast vs iron/cement - SailNet Community

"I have discarded all my Caliber info (I made an offer on a 33 a couple of years ago, which was rejected), but I could swear that the ballast in Calibers is lead. One reason I say this is because Caliber people always disparage Island Packets by pointing out that IP uses cement as part of their ballast. If you have a particular model/hull number in mind, call the factory and check with them on the construction. My brain could be failing, but I do recall that Caliber uses lead."

And from Sailing Amarchy:

Full disclosure: I don't care for cruisers to begin with, but the IPY boats are low on my list due to:
They're very heavy and undercanvassed so painfully slow and full keels inhibit maneuverability, there's a good reason almost no builders design with full keels anymore.
I never cared for their tan everywhere gelcoat. YMMV
And I never liked how they're ballasted, they don't play up their "technology" it seems so you have to dig to find it, but from their own website "First, the open space of the keel area is filled with ballast. Depending on the Island Packet model, ballast material is either lead, iron or a combination of the two. After the ballast components have been carefully weighed and placed into the keel, gallons of catalyzed resin are poured evenly over the ballast. Due to its low viscosity the resin quickly reaches the bottom of the keel to lock in the lower pieces. The remainder of the ballast is then encapsulated in mortar. Special vibrating probes are used to ensure the absence of air voids, much like the way structural members for bridges and buildings are made. This simple and effective process has proven itself for decades in thousands of yachts."
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:38   #35
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

This thread has taken on a life of its own... Without the OP.

I'd agree with someone back a few pages. Pick your "needs", what ever they may be, then look for the boat. The boats listed are all different to some degree.
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:02   #36
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

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but nothing like the Baba

You know they say you'll know when you have found the right boat when you first see her? Well I lust after this one, but just like a beautiful model or something, I know she is way above my pay grade
1990 TaShing Baba 40' Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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a64, my thoughts exactly. I looked at that boat as well. Nicest Baba I've ever seen, ever.
Holy Crap!

There would be no guess as to what your idle time.... as well as every other spare moment was spent doing when cruising...

She sure is gorgeous though....
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:14   #37
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe68 View Post
Sailnet:
lead ballast vs iron/cement - SailNet Community

"I have discarded all my Caliber info (I made an offer on a 33 a couple of years ago, which was rejected), but I could swear that the ballast in Calibers is lead. One reason I say this is because Caliber people always disparage Island Packets by pointing out that IP uses cement as part of their ballast. If you have a particular model/hull number in mind, call the factory and check with them on the construction. My brain could be failing, but I do recall that Caliber uses lead."

And from Sailing Amarchy:

Full disclosure: I don't care for cruisers to begin with, but the IPY boats are low on my list due to:
They're very heavy and undercanvassed so painfully slow and full keels inhibit maneuverability, there's a good reason almost no builders design with full keels anymore.
I never cared for their tan everywhere gelcoat. YMMV
And I never liked how they're ballasted, they don't play up their "technology" it seems so you have to dig to find it, but from their own website "First, the open space of the keel area is filled with ballast. Depending on the Island Packet model, ballast material is either lead, iron or a combination of the two. After the ballast components have been carefully weighed and placed into the keel, gallons of catalyzed resin are poured evenly over the ballast. Due to its low viscosity the resin quickly reaches the bottom of the keel to lock in the lower pieces. The remainder of the ballast is then encapsulated in mortar. Special vibrating probes are used to ensure the absence of air voids, much like the way structural members for bridges and buildings are made. This simple and effective process has proven itself for decades in thousands of yachts."
Ah I see where this comes from. If odd- or random-shaped pieces of iron or lead are used to fill the keel void rather than a single piece that is cast to the shape of the void, then the pieces need to be fixed in place or they could bread thru the skin if they shifted underway. There are several ways to do this, polyester or epoxy resin, a thick tar mastic that is heated so it will flow into place before cooling and thickening and any of various concrete grouts. With all of these methods the iron or lead is the ballast and the other things are just stabilizers.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:24   #38
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Yeo, my contessa 32 will exceed much of your criteria……however I would not recommend one because size and tankage limits storage and interior volume.Fabulous boat for single hander and a keen sailor in open water; but if ,as you state ,room for a few (more than 2?) then I'm thinking a larger heavy cruiser . Tough as nails? Nothing beats steel period.
This forum gets requests similar to yours weekly so there is a plethora of (mostly) great advice that I,d rather not add to.
But as soon as one requirement is "go almost anywhere" then size, costs, tankage condition , extra equipment,etc. escalate to exceed the financial means and the experience level of the majority of the wannabes who ask for advice here.
Now for more discouraging news : there is no perfect boat that will do it all that you will be happy with forever. Some may disagree but I have yet to meet them. Many here believe they have the perfect boat (I'm one of them) for where they are in their sailing career but usually they have arrived via a succession of boats and experiences , so yes you have come to the right place and if you bring the right mind set you will find thousands of posts here that will prove helpful.
Now for some fabulous news: The boatyards and brokers are full of fine boats that can easily meet most of your criteria and cost as little as 10% of new . Spring is here (almost) so get out on some craft , this is part of the adventure..good luck!
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:26   #39
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

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Ah I see where this comes from. If odd- or random-shaped pieces of iron or lead are used to fill the keel void rather than a single piece that is cast to the shape of the void, then the pieces need to be fixed in place or they could bread thru the skin if they shifted underway. There are several ways to do this, polyester or epoxy resin, a thick tar mastic that is heated so it will flow into place before cooling and thickening and any of various concrete grouts. With all of these methods the iron or lead is the ballast and the other things are just stabilizers.

All boats have weaknesses, or at least it seems the one I can afford do. Iron as ballast concerns me, not from it being a low cost or anything solution, my concern is if salt water gets to it and it begins to corrode, it will swell and surely wreak all sorts of havoc?
But I've not heard of a single instance of that, so I'm hoping my concerns are unfounded. Seems that the tanks and chainplates are the real concerns, but they can be dealt with, just when the time comes should I go with a 316 fabbed tank or have a plastic one made? I've access to aircraft welders and a water jet or laser at works so a 316SS tank is possible and plastic ones I think you just supply dimensions
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:39   #40
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Often the tanks are the cheap part, its the labor to get the old ones out and the repairs needed after the new tank goes in. I know little about the IP but if the tanks are below the sole and the sole is fixed or if there are other cabinets or furniture that needs to be removed then that type of work can eat up lots of time.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:45   #41
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

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All boats have weaknesses, or at least it seems the one I can afford do. Iron as ballast concerns me, not from it being a low cost or anything solution, my concern is if salt water gets to it and it begins to corrode, it will swell and surely wreak all sorts of havoc?
But I've not heard of a single instance of that, so I'm hoping my concerns are unfounded. Seems that the tanks and chainplates are the real concerns, but they can be dealt with, just when the time comes should I go with a 316 fabbed tank or have a plastic one made? I've access to aircraft welders and a water jet or laser at works so a 316SS tank is possible and plastic ones I think you just supply dimensions
Your concerns re the keel are nothing to lose sleep over.... at least for me... ballast encased in resin... That's a tough nut to crack... If you have this swelling/intrusion issue... You have larger problems at hand...

I have a mix of SS, PE, and Al on boats.... Any replacement will be with PE...
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:51   #42
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Yeah, in the long run, I think I had rather have a full encapsulated keel filled with scrap iron, than a pure lead one bolted on.
You know the more you dig into this, the more you learn that everything has weaknesses, there are no perfect solutions, everything seems to come up as "it depends, how and where are you going to cruise" seems to be a big determining factor
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:25   #43
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

After a while on these "which boat" threads you can make a pretty good guess at which books someone has been reading. Once you have done this it is easier to provide suggestions that fit with what someone wants to hear.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:32   #44
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

Haven't read all the thread, but if I had limitless money to spend on a monohull, I might buy a Sadler. That's just for the buoyancy factor; shouldn't sink if holed.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:03   #45
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Re: Best 35-40 footer for a couple going anywhere.

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Your concerns re the keel are nothing to lose sleep over.... at least for me... ballast encased in resin... That's a tough nut to crack... If you have this swelling/intrusion issue... You have larger problems at hand...

I have a mix of SS, PE, and Al on boats.... Any replacement will be with PE...
What is PE?
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