Beneteau Sense vs a Cat?

[Budawang]

When the Beneteau Sense came out a couple of years ago it was being hailed as a revolutionary new design and a multihull/monohull hybrid. Given the surging popularity of multis, it's easy to see why Beneteau were going in this direction. It seems traditional monos are now seen as outmoded and vastly inferior to cats by many multi owners.

I'd be interested to hear from people familiar with the Sense on how successful Beneteau has been with the Sense. How does the Sense stack up against a cat? Better value for money? Is it really all that much more stable/comfortable? Has it given new life and a bright future to monohulls?

[44'cruisingcat]

A "cruising" boat with no davits. Sense?

[barnakiel]

Coke or Pepsi?

b.

[Greenhand]

Even in the brochures, the Sense heels under sail. The idea of the hard chine is to find a spot where it "digs in" that is at a lesser angle than a conventional monohull. It is still going to be too much for many multihullers.

Also, I have yet to see a monohull design where you can look out the front.

PS: Can you imagine a 43' multi with only two cabins and one head?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

(...)

Also, I have yet to see a monohull design where you can look out the front.

(...)

Young age?
Poor googling skills?
Sclerosis multiplex?

That was well before 2000. Around 2010 came the Moodies.

B.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Budawang

..
I'd be interested to hear from people familiar with the Sense on how successful Beneteau has been with the Sense. How does the Sense stack up against a cat? Better value for money? Is it really all that much more stable/comfortable? Has it given new life and a bright future to monohulls?

It is clearly a successful Series. They launched the first Sense, the 50fter 4 years ago. If the formula was not a success they would not have continued it as a Series. After that come the Sense 43 in 2011, the Sense 55 in 2012 and the Sense 46 last year.

Note that a Sense in what regards sailing qualities is not substantially different from an Oceanis. The main difference regards quality of the interior (that is superior on the Sense) but most of all the interior set up and the larger cockpit.

The success was so big that had some unexpected ramifications: Beneteau thought the boat has a owner's boat, a boat with better qualities to live aboard for more extended time and i bet they did not thought that the boat would be interesting for charter. Well they were wrong, lots of them ended up on the charter business. Just google Beneteau Sense Charter

[robert sailor]

For the type of sailing that fits 99% of the sailors the Sense makes sense. In some models the new Moody (not British but built by Hanse) is 2 stories inside c/w sliding patio doors aka multi hulls and it is huge everywhere. Not my cup of tea but you can sure see that it is a mono/multi.

[monte]

yeah the sense do have a few +'s that the cats have, including a wide open cockpit and saloon, modern furnishings, few steps. Our dog would be just as happy on one as he can climb onto the swim platform, walk inside and into the saloon without steps. Speeds are pretty good, regularly cruising around 8K. To compare the 43 to our lagoon 380 id say, similar cockpit space, slightly smaller saloon, less lockers and storage, one less cabin, no davits, less space for solar panels, maybe a bit faster.
Not bad for a leaner!

[Budawang]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

For the type of sailing that fits 99% of the sailors the Sense makes sense. In some models the new Moody (not British but built by Hanse) is 2 stories inside c/w sliding patio doors aka multi hulls and it is huge everywhere. Not my cup of tea but you can sure see that it is a mono/multi.

Moody's are nice but expensive. The Sense seems to be better value for money which is why I'm interested in them. Not many 43s for sale, but a couple of the earlier 2011 models are not far off the magic $200K mark.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by monte

..To compare the 43 to our lagoon 380 id say, similar cockpit space, slightly smaller saloon, less lockers and storage, one less cabin, no davits, less space for solar panels, maybe a bit faster.
Not bad for a leaner!

Hum, it seems that you have not ever been on a Sense 43, the storage space is simply huge (all the back of the boat), certainly bigger than on the Lagoon 38, the saloon is clearly bigger as well as the cockpit and finally we agree on something, yes the Sense 43 is faster and also it has an incomparably better finish.

I will post some pictures to illustrate what I am sayng, but first of all look to the two first links : virtual visits of the two boats, they are quite enlightening:

http://www.sunbirdyachts.eu/beneteau..._sense_43_.swf
Lagoon catamarans : building, sale and chartering of luxury cruising catamarans

[caradow]

Not to start a battle re: mono vs. multi but it is amazing to me that anyone who has spent any time actually offshore and not just sitting at anchorages would not consider what happens on a boat such as a Sense when you are in that "spacious" interior down below while battling a 40 kt. headwind. Being tossed from one side to the other may make one wish for handholds and/or a more sea-kindly design.
The boat is for entertaining and limited sailing.
If that is what you want then it makes "Sense" otherwise you will be in for a rude awakening when the feces hit the whirling blades.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by caradow

Not to start a battle re: mono vs. multi but it is amazing to me that anyone who has spent any time actually offshore and not just sitting at anchorages would not consider what happens on a boat such as a Sense when you are in that "spacious" interior down below while battling a 40 kt. headwind. Being tossed from one side to the other may make one wish for handholds and/or a more sea-kindly design.
The boat is for entertaining and limited sailing.
If that is what you want then it makes "Sense" otherwise you will be in for a rude awakening when the feces hit the whirling blades.

If you don't want to start a battle you should be more careful with what you say:

Really going upwind in 40K wind? Do you think the Lagoon 38 would do better? I am quite sure that would be the opposite.

Limited sailing really? You mean that is not designed to go upwind with 40k wind Do you know many boats that are? The Lagoon is also a limited boat?

Regarding going upwind with lots of wind and a nasty sea in fact a monohull is more stable in what regards motion than a multihull. The boat will be hard tied to one side by the force of the wind and you will experiment a strong pitching movement. On a cat you would not only experience a pitching movement but also a strong jerking lateral movement due to a wave hitting at a different time each of the hulls. Some had described that on those conditions it is hard to stand on a cat due to the more unpredictable movement while on a mono you have just to follow the boat pitch, that is a lot more predictable then two different motions at the same time.

But who would chose a boat by the way it will go upwind with 40K of wind? Many sailed a lot and never encountered those conditions. Sure, 40K is not that unusual if you sail for many years but who would go upwind with 40K. If you do, I believe you are one of the few

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by caradow

Not to start a battle re: mono vs. multi but it is amazing to me that anyone who has spent any time actually offshore and not just sitting at anchorages would not consider what happens on a boat such as a Sense when you are in that "spacious" interior down below while battling a 40 kt. headwind.( ...)

But does this differ from a cat with poorly laid out handholds and space dividers?

I agree with you there is plenty of poor interior design (great design but not very seagoing) in modern boats. It is like now that we have all this space the designer does not really know what to do with it. They would, if they were sailors.

When I look at Sense interior images I do not see it as worse than many others. In fact, the space seems to be divided pretty well. Perhaps some amount of retrofitting will be desired by someone thinking of extensive blue water use. Perhaps the boatyard can do such mods in shop (?). I know Alubat does for their Ovnis and Cigales.

I think Sense is quite a big boat and as such will buy the owners some comfort factor, also offshore. I found many modern hulls way more comfortable at sea than many older hulls. Often, the motion is different, but there is less of it, and I end up less tired.

So to say some ups and some downs of virtually everything.

b.

[caradow]

Well Polux just got off my Little Harbor 50 (monohull) last week while sailing approximately 30 miles offshore and was experiencing gusts to 45 on the nose which was not predicted and I was very uncomfortable. I was not looking to sail upwind in those kinds of conditions but maybe you are are a better weather router than me. I was thrown from one side of the boat when we came off a wave. If I had been in a Sense I may have been hurt because of the interior design. That is all I am saying.
And nowhere did I compare the Sense to a Lagoon 380 although if you want to go there just google how many Lagoon 380's have been built and sailed around the world and I think that may speak for itself.
Also please spare me about catamarans sailing in rough weather. I also own a 44 ft. cat that I now have accumulated just a little over 5000 ocean miles so it is relativity new to me but have also had my share of bad weather. Again never planned to sail upwind in bad weather with the cat but I have on numerous occasions.
Both boats have their pro's and con's.

[robert sailor]

Boy getting a bit heated here! Multi's have really done well and its easy enough to see why. Most cruisers are not crossing oceans in their multi's nor mono's for that matter and they are used primarily for living aboard in lovely climates. Be it the Med Caribbean or Mexico its hard to beat these boats for room. The mono designers are not stupid and they are stretching and bulging mono's like never before. When you go on a Sense or a new Moody you have the same feel as a multi, some would say a better one but that's up to the individual. Either way this is what buyers are looking for and they have some wonderful choices out there. If you want to go fast then these are not the boats for you as there are much better choices for both designs. If you want to sail in the high latitudes there are much better choices for this type of sailing as well, but for 99% of the buyers out there the builders seem to have hit the nail on the head.