Beneteau Sense vs a Cat?

[monte]

Polis, I have spent some tome time on both the sense and the 380 which is why I felt qualified to compare them, the l380 has a lot more storage space, 2 huge bow lockers, huge lockers forward of the saloon, at least equivalent saloon and galley storage and more in each cabin. Cockpit under seat storage is probably about the same and as far as quality of finish, they are both from the same manufacturers and there's no discernible difference in either. Add an additional 2 cabins, or one and a huge owners suite and the l380 clearly has much more accommodation, storage and space and you would need to go for at least the sense 50 to even come close to the l380.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Boy getting a bit heated here! Multi's have really done well and its easy enough to see why. Most cruisers are not crossing oceans in their multi's nor mono's for that matter and they are used primarily for living aboard in lovely climates. Be it the Med Caribbean or Mexico its hard to beat these boats for room. The mono designers are not stupid and they are stretching and bulging mono's like never before. When you go on a Sense or a new Moody you have the same feel as a multi, some would say a better one but that's up to the individual. Either way this is what buyers are looking for and they have some wonderful choices out there. If you want to go fast then these are not the boats for you as there are much better choices for both designs. If you want to sail in the high latitudes there are much better choices for this type of sailing as well, but for 99% of the buyers out there the builders seem to have hit the nail on the head.

I don't know about that. Why do so many monohulls have absolutely no provision for dinghy storage? Why do so few have any shade in the cockpit, relying on retrofitted canvas to do the job?

I'd have thought for any real cruising boat, towing the dinghy should be unthinkable, stowing it inverted on the foredeck shouldn't be satisfactory and for the tropics a properly shaded cockpit is essential.

[robert sailor]

You know I was looking at a new Moody when we were in Spain and it had the big dink davits and an electric bimini top where with a push of a button you could either have sunshine or shade. It was a 2 story with the main saloon at walk in deck level c/w a huge cockpit that was easily a match for most cats and below the main floor was a full level of bedrooms and heads. I can see people choosing this boat over a Cat if they are died in the wool mono people. I think as time goes on you will see more and more builders going down this path on mono's and it all started with the multi's. Whatever your choice these boats are sure roomy. R

[monte]

Yes..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by caradow

...
Both boats have their pro's and con's.

Well, I agree with that

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Boy getting a bit heated here! Multi's have really done well and its easy enough to see why. Most cruisers are not crossing oceans in their multi's nor mono's for that matter and they are used primarily for living aboard in lovely climates. Be it the Med Caribbean or Mexico its hard to beat these boats for room. The mono designers are not stupid and they are stretching and bulging mono's like never before. When you go on a Sense or a new Moody you have the same feel as a multi, some would say a better one but that's up to the individual. Either way this is what buyers are looking for and they have some wonderful choices out there. If you want to go fast then these are not the boats for you as there are much better choices for both designs. If you want to sail in the high latitudes there are much better choices for this type of sailing as well, but for 99% of the buyers out there the builders seem to have hit the nail on the head.

and i agree with that too

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I don't know about that. Why do so many monohulls have absolutely no provision for dinghy storage? Why do so few have any shade in the cockpit, relying on retrofitted canvas to do the job?

I'd have thought for any real cruising boat, towing the dinghy should be unthinkable, stowing it inverted on the foredeck shouldn't be satisfactory and for the tropics a properly shaded cockpit is essential.

Why shouldn't be satisfactory to stow it inverted on a cockpit? On small boats that can create problems going forward but we are talking about boats of 40ft and over and on those I can't see any problem. Besides a carrying the dinghy suspended on the back of the boat exposes more the dinghy to the sea in rough conditions, not to mention the effect a lot of weight suspended on the back of the boat has regarding boat balance. Not a problem in a real big yacht but that's not the case of most of the boats we are talking about.

Regarding shades the big difference I see is that the one in monohulls is removable allowing protection when it's hot but also allowing to enjoy sun on cold days out of the summer. A disadvantage in what regards the solution most cats use, unless you sail only on the summer.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by monte

... about the same and as far as quality of finish, they are both from the same manufacturers and there's no discernible difference in either. ...

Yes, they are both from the same company, Beneteau, and I agree if you compare the level of Finish of a Lagoon with the one of an Beneteau Oceanis. The Beneteau Sense is several notches above that. Maybe Beneteau will make also on the future a "luxury" line of cats, a bit as they had done with the Oceanis and the Sense.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Polux

yes the Sense 43 is faster

Than What?

[Coops]

Originally Posted by Factor

Than What?

A Lagoon 38 as the rest of that paragraph stated.

Coops.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by monte

Polis, I have spent some tome time on both the sense and the 380 which is why I felt qualified to compare them, the l380 has a lot more storage space, 2 huge bow lockers, huge lockers forward of the saloon, at least equivalent saloon and galley storage and more in each cabin. Cockpit under seat storage is probably about the same and as far as quality of finish, they are both from the same manufacturers and there's no discernible difference in either. Add an additional 2 cabins, or one and a huge owners suite and the l380 clearly has much more accommodation, storage and space and you would need to go for at least the sense 50 to even come close to the l380.

I have to disagree with you a bit. In volume, the L380 is closer to the Sense 46 than the Sense 43. Regardless, equivalent galley and saloon space? Really? All the Sense boats have a substantial Saloon, navdesk, and galley, while the L380 has the smallest navstation and galley imaginable. All the Sense line also have the largest cockpits of any boats their size, with substantial storage under the cockpit as well.

I do agree that the real advantage of the L380 is in the number of cabins; in order to achieve all this, the Sense 43-46 essentially give up one cabin, so they have 2 cabins versus the 3-4 you normally find on most catamarans.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

Why shouldn't be satisfactory to stow it inverted on a cockpit? On small boats that can create problems going forward but we are talking about boats of 40ft and over and on those I can't see any problem. Besides a carrying the dinghy suspended on the back of the boat exposes more the dinghy to the sea in rough conditions, not to mention the effect a lot of weight suspended on the back of the boat has regarding boat balance. Not a problem in a real big yacht but that's not the case of most of the boats we are talking about.

Regarding shades the big difference I see is that the one in monohulls is removable allowing protection when it's hot but also allowing to enjoy sun on cold days out of the summer. A disadvantage in what regards the solution most cats use, unless you sail only on the summer.

Storing the dinghy on the foredeck is extremely inconvenient. So much so I think only someone who hasn't lived on a boat long term could even ask the question.

First, you can only have a small dinghy.
You have to remove the outboard every time you stow the dinghy.
It's usually at least a two-person job to lift the dinghy using a halyard, then invert it for stowage.
Any safety gear, anchors etc kept in the dinghy has to be removed every time. Sooner or later this gear will be forgotten and left on the boat.
On many boats the dinghy needs to be lifted to allow access to the foredeck hatch.

And, if you really feel the urge to sit in the sun, on a cat there's a huge foredeck to do it on. And it's not cluttered with an upturned dinghy.

[Coops]

There are many reasons against having the dinghy on the foredeck but it does not mean that a boat without davits is not a cruising boat.

Davits are a relatively new addition to the cruising world. Rarely, if ever seen in the seventies, and cruising started a good deal before then.

There are reasons against having a dinghy on davits as well as reasons for. To consider a boat as not suitable for cruising because it does not have davits though is like saying that a boat must have air conditioning. Somebody cannot do without it and somebody else would not even consider it. It is just a personal like or dislike, it sets no boundaries for the ability to cruise.

Coops.

[Budawang]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Storing the dinghy on the foredeck is extremely inconvenient. So much so I think only someone who hasn't lived on a boat long term could even ask the question.

First, you can only have a small dinghy.
You have to remove the outboard every time you stow the dinghy.
It's usually at least a two-person job to lift the dinghy using a halyard, then invert it for stowage.
Any safety gear, anchors etc kept in the dinghy has to be removed every time. Sooner or later this gear will be forgotten and left on the boat.
On many boats the dinghy needs to be lifted to allow access to the foredeck hatch.

And, if you really feel the urge to sit in the sun, on a cat there's a huge foredeck to do it on. And it's not cluttered with an upturned dinghy.

Why couldn't davits be installed on a Sense?

[robert sailor]

Davits have been around a long time. Sailing offshore with a dink in davits was considered poor seamanship in the past but peoples choices and ideas have changed. Actually I still won't do it but admittedly there have only been a couple of days in over 8 years of offshore sailing where the whole thing would have come to grief.
We used to really be careful of weight in the ends of our boats but these days no one cares about that either with vast arrays of panels, huge dinks with 30hp outboards and god knows what else hanging off the back. Again I think that on some boats this weight robs performance in certain conditions but it is now the norm.
Gensets and AC are also popular and this was never seen years ago even though it was available. Long story short times and people have changed. Sailors are older and want more comforts, they have more money and can afford them and actual sailing performance is at the lower end of wants and needs.
As far as dink storage on the foredeck, 44 Cruising Cat has this nailed. It is extra work to remove and launch your dink and you do have to take the engine off each time you move. Now I'm not so sure what saving this time and work will do for your lifestyle when cruising over lowering it on davits. Maybe Cat sailors are fatter and less active than the rest of us, instead of doing a little work that might benefit them, they have another beer. LOL