Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-06-2013, 06:14   #121
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
The fact is there are 1000s of Bene , Bavs, etc around , I've sailed Euro production almost exclusively , but also so e more exotic stuff , like swans, X-yachts and most Swedish stuff

The creakiest interior ever was a 30 year old HR , good boat but boy was there a racket from the furniture.

Bene et al , will all be sailing 30-40 years from now, providing the weekend warrior ( with typical 2-3 week vacation time) with a safe and reliable machine. This is simply proven by inspection.

Buy whatever you like , but they will do the job

in my experience Hunter s well below the others in quality

Remember someone has to buy new boats so we can have 2nd hand ones.

For Euro production I'd rank

Jeaneaux
BeneTeau/ Hanse
Bavaria /DuFour/Delphia
Gibsea

After that your into the niche players.

The fact is the stuff will be sailing when were dead , leave the snobbery at the door please

( how a person can say Lewmar or harken , seldon, facnor, deck gear is crap is beyond me. )

You cannot avoid Euro production boats , they simply dominate the market. , so they have to be factored in.

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2013, 18:01   #122
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachussetts
Boat: Cheoy Lee 47 CC
Posts: 700
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I'm comparing boats I've sailed and inspected, no matter whose gear you use they all have good and not so good stuff, the manufacturers choice of gear is dictated by price. I have no prejudice toward a manufacturer, I have a cold hard eye toward function and value, once you've chosen a brand loyalty your vision can be skewed. When buying and selling insurance boats you have to have a hard, practical view toward the piece your looking at or you wont last very long. Cutting into and doing major work gives you a different view of what goes into a boat.
It's a boat, built by a company looking to make a profit on it, how many corners you cut is dictated by the front office, that's what really dictates quality. There are different models within certain lines that are better than others, depends on the designer and even the particular site it was built in.
What you own is dictated by your means, but within that is a wide range of choices. Just like "classic rock" most people only remember the better boats built in the past decades because their still around, most tend to forget the crap that didn't make the test of time. They didn't build them any better or worse in the past, time just weeded out the week, and we only tend to nostalgically remember and sail the ones that stood the test of time and forget the junk. The same will also happen to the current crop of offerings. I also ride motorcycles and own a couple "classics", old British bikes, any time I hear some geezer (like me) claim how great the old bikes were compared to whats around now I challenge them to take one for a ride and compare it to their current ride. That usually ends the argument, nostalgia ain't what it used to be and I'm not very nostalgic or emotional when it comes to spending my hard earned money on a boat. You don't always get what you pay for.
__________________

__________________
lifeofreilly57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2013, 18:23   #123
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Yes but a search for absolute quality is worthless , all boats are compromises , you have to ask yourself " given the budget I have , is it good enough" the answer for the vast majority of modern production boats , used by the vast majority of typical users/buyers is " yes"

If you want particular features or specific quality that you determine is important to you , then you need deeper pockets.

I personally find modern medium valve production cruisers to be " honest" , it is what it is. I tend to be far more jaundiced about " high quality " manufactures , which often hide basic construction wrapped up in " hand finished features" that make the boat more desirable but not necessarily better at a fundamental level.

As I said in this regards modern production cruisers are adequate for the job at hand , some are even good for the job at hand , very few are excellent in all respects for the job at hand.

But "adaquate" will get you around the world. Ask MarkJ

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2013, 18:45   #124
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachussetts
Boat: Cheoy Lee 47 CC
Posts: 700
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

How rough and ready can you go cruising? This from someone who covered all of North America on motorcycles with a tent, camp stove and sleeping bag, you can go a long way on short money if you camp for free and wash up in streams. I started that way with sailboats but am in the process of buying a cruising boat with a king size bed in the master cabin, water maker and generator.
It's what you can do with the means you have at the time. This is the first boat I've owned in 30 years that wasn't an insurance refurb or auction boat, it will be a new experience. On the other hand I've picked up some invaluable knowledge on hull construction and systems by refurbing boats I otherwise could never afford to own, there are major construction quality differences within the same price level boats which only comes out as the boat ages. How much do you want to deal with?
Westsail started the cruising revolution for regular guys back in the early 70's, prior to that you were talking custom built or home built, money or time. Since then many good boats have been built, and just as many stinkers, get the most for what you can afford, don't get rapped up in emotions too much in the buying process, being personally strong in the buying phase will have many benefits over the long haul. You need to have the drive and passion to pursue your dreams, unfortunately you have to be pretty cold and calculating when judging a potential purchase, nothing sucks more than getting stuck with a stinker.
There's a lot of mid size boats out there that are good buys.
__________________
lifeofreilly57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2013, 18:59   #125
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Having delivered a fair number of aging production cruisers including some that saw 5-8 years of hard charter use. I can comfortably say that most modern production cruisers will be suitable for most sailors. In any set of boats there are lemons. I also agree that for the same price range you can get surprising differences and spec.

But talk of liner versus stick built , hull this and hull that , etc all miss the point. The average production boat doesn't fall apart in 5 or 10 years. It will take u around the world with the usual care and attention.

After that the rest really falls under personal preference and aesthetics

If Valients were any good why where so few sold outside NA. The NA market for sailing boats is proportionately much smaller then elsewhere ( its predominantly power based ). Cruising boats in France for example are seen to be fast and nimble ( the Amel in France is known as a old man boat ! )

Simply making a boat heavy , don't make it good.

Dave

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2013, 20:20   #126
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chesapeake Bay, VA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 300
Posts: 24
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I bought my Beneteau almost 20 years ago. I am drawn to the "affordable" quality of a Sabre or a Tartan, but there are certain things on the Beneteau I am just addicted to that "true" sailors will roll their eyes at, eg. roomy cockpits and roller furling. I like comfort, I like convenience, so sue me. There is no question that I find myself cursing quality/design/engineering choices occasionally when I have tools in my hands. Often times, the parts or pieces I'm cursing aren't Beneteau made, and found on other production boats. That said, French engineering is decidedly, well, French (the engineers in Hell are said to be French).

So, in the end, I have found a decent balance of quality and price on mine that offers something a lot of boats don't - value. As a result, while I may look at the other nicer quality boats, if I'm being honest and unless my needs change, it will likely be another Beneteau that I actually purchase. If, when it's time to purchase, the newer ones are up to snuff, there are plenty of older ones that are.
__________________
jigray3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2013, 15:33   #127
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 85
There's not much the French do well, but Beneteau is one of them. Enough said!
__________________
DJBrookster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2013, 16:55   #128
Registered User
 
deluxe68's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona/Rhode Island
Boat: Swan 432
Posts: 581
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigray3 View Post
I bought my Beneteau almost 20 years ago. I am drawn to the "affordable" quality of a Sabre or a Tartan, but there are certain things on the Beneteau I am just addicted to that "true" sailors will roll their eyes at, eg. roomy cockpits and roller furling. I like comfort, I like convenience, so sue me. There is no question that I find myself cursing quality/design/engineering choices occasionally when I have tools in my hands. Often times, the parts or pieces I'm cursing aren't Beneteau made, and found on other production boats. That said, French engineering is decidedly, well, French (the engineers in Hell are said to be French).

So, in the end, I have found a decent balance of quality and price on mine that offers something a lot of boats don't - value. As a result, while I may look at the other nicer quality boats, if I'm being honest and unless my needs change, it will likely be another Beneteau that I actually purchase. If, when it's time to purchase, the newer ones are up to snuff, there are plenty of older ones that are.
There is a big difference between the Beneteaus made in the late 80's/early 90's and the boats made today. Back then they were designed to sail well, the boats today are made to sell well. All of the new non-first boats have undersized gear, iron ballasts and a poor B/D ratio. My 36.7 is night and day different from an early 80's first 42 we looked at. Sure, the modern B-boats are cheap initially but how much does it cost to change out the brass thru-hulls, upgrade the boom/winches etc etc.
__________________
deluxe68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2013, 17:49   #129
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 435
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBrookster View Post
There's not much the French do well, but Beneteau is one of them. Enough said!
You should take a ride on the TGV, drink a St. Julien, eat just about anything French, but particularly something from a Patisserie or a fromage, check out their secondary schools, read up on their healthcare system,visit the Musée d'Orsay, see their fabulous architectural masterpieces, etc., etc., and on and on. Your comment is a ridiculously myopic point of ignorance. While few countries have a paucity of narrow mindedness in the realm of global understanding our two countries pretty much lead the pack in the western world, something your comment embodies in full.
__________________
Brob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2013, 20:39   #130
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
You should take a ride on the TGV, drink a St. Julien, eat just about anything French, but particularly something from a Patisserie or a fromage, check out their secondary schools, read up on their healthcare system,visit the Musée d'Orsay, see their fabulous architectural masterpieces, etc., etc., and on and on. Your comment is a ridiculously myopic point of ignorance. While few countries have a paucity of narrow mindedness in the realm of global understanding our two countries pretty much lead the pack in the western world, something your comment embodies in full.
To say nothing about their world leadership in big multihull offshore boats.

On the other hand, I remember having to work on Citroen automobiles some years ago...AUUUGHHHH!

But you are so right about the myopia!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2013, 01:19   #131
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,241
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The primary purpose of the RCD was to ensure that boats built in one EU country and CE approved , required no further certification in any other EU country. The primary driver for the RCD was the British power boat builders who were having trouble with the Italian RINA approvals process.
I seem to remember that there was a lot of protest against the RCD by some members of the British boat building industry however...
__________________
K_V_B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 13:25   #132
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post

You should take a ride on the TGV, drink a St. Julien, eat just about anything French, but particularly something from a Patisserie or a fromage, check out their secondary schools, read up on their healthcare system, visit the Musée d'Orsay, see their fabulous architectural masterpieces, etc., etc., and on and on. Your comment is a ridiculously myopic point of ignorance. While few countries have a paucity of narrow mindedness in the realm of global understanding our two countries pretty much lead the pack in the western world, something your comment embodies in full.
I think you take yourself and my comment far too seriously.
__________________
DJBrookster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 14:51   #133
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 435
Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBrookster View Post
I think you take yourself and my comment far too seriously.
I am tired of the slagging the French take from so many North Americans and Brits. Perhaps a mille-feuille and a Cadillac (or cafe au lait) would put us both back on the road to respectability. I'll test that theory this evening.
__________________
Brob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 17:54   #134
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBrookster View Post
There's not much the French do well, but Beneteau is one of them. Enough said!
As Churchill said , you can rely on the Americand to do the right thing , after they have tried everything else first !

The French do most things well. The rest they do very well.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 18:05   #135
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

The French do most things well. The rest they do very well.

Dave
Yup.... nearly...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.