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Old 04-06-2013, 17:11   #106
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I thought that CE in Europe was like the Underwriters Laboratories in the U.S..
Not just for boats but for pretty much all manufactured products.
The spirit of it is to hold manufacturers to a standard of quality that keeps consumers from being injured of killed by faulty and dangerous products.
CE. ( Conformite European ) is used across a wide range of products from toys , electronics , boats etc. it means that the manufacturer complies with whatever European Directive applies to the relevant industry.

In the case of leisure boats, the Relevant Directive is the RCD ( Recreational Craft Directive ) , this covers two main parts , (A) a requirement that manufacturers meet the required build standards by ( i) using The relevant ISO standards or (ii) certifying via a third party standards body , that the part or construction process is equivalent. (B) that the manufacturer has a certified quality process and appropriate documentation process.

For Cat D vessels, the builder can self certify , for ABC , you must engage a standards body to assess your construction methods and quality process.

iSO and RCD standard covers , scantlings , stability , gas installs , AC DC standards , fire safety , watertightness , etc etc

Like all such standards , it has its loopholes and oversights , the most glaring one being the seacocks issue , that's currently being addressed and will form an update to the relevant ISO standard. But in general it assures a basic quality and cuts out rogue builders

CE certification is mandatory for all boats new or secondhand produced or imported into the EU.

The primary purpose of the RCD was to ensure that boats built in one EU country and CE approved , required no further certification in any other EU country. The primary driver for the RCD was the British power boat builders who were having trouble with the Italian RINA approvals process.

Dave
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Old 04-06-2013, 17:36   #107
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I'm not sure if the interiors of the newer boats are a result of a company trying to save a buck (quid, lire, etc.) or a trend toward minimalism.

Personally, I like lots of teak and think the interiors of new boats are hideous.

Are Beneteau's any worse in build quality than other boats of similar size and cost?

Not if those at the Strictly Sail - Chicago are any indication.
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Old 04-06-2013, 17:51   #108
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Boat shows are a kind of a funny thing aren't they? How many people who go to a boat show are actually in the market to buy a boat? How many people who go to boat shows already own a boat and really don't have any desire to buy a new one? How many of those people are the ones who pick apart and exaggerate every little flaw in pretty much everything they see? How many of those people are disparaging and criticizing boats that are significantly better than what they presently own?
Why would a sane person do that?
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Old 04-06-2013, 17:53   #109
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

And if they do own a boat that is significantly better than the boats they are disparaging, why would they do that?
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Old 04-06-2013, 18:00   #110
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
CE Certification is around since 1995. And its was driven by the big boys in British boatbuilding Princess and Fairline, Brits don't build sailing boats anymore.

Dave
CE was made law in 2005...
how do I know...?
because I was 1 day late checking in and my boat suddenly became liable...
the one 3yrs previous... no problems...
Another door closed on my 'income'....
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Old 04-06-2013, 18:55   #111
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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By the way , those DIN rail connectors are not suitable for salt water , quite a few parts are coated steel, they get nasty after a while.


And that teak deck is screwed down , creating thousands of potential water leak points. I spent a very interesting 1/2 hour discussing the method with the HR craftsman.


Dave

Just to point out, Hallberg rasy dont use screws for the teak deck anymore, teak is vacum glued i think from 2009 onward, leaks are a thing from the past now....
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Old 04-06-2013, 22:17   #112
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I'm learning a lot on this thread have to say. Good stuff!
One thing that keeps coming up... Seacocks. Would it be good advice to just replace these for higher end devices? How much would it cost to correct this on most production boats.

Regards,
Simon
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Old 05-06-2013, 00:27   #113
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
Boat shows are a kind of a funny thing aren't they? How many people who go to a boat show are actually in the market to buy a boat? How many people who go to boat shows already own a boat and really don't have any desire to buy a new one?
Nearly two years ago, we went to the Newport RI boat show as happy owners of a Hunter 450; three months later the Hunter was sold and we purchased the Oyster 53, directly the result of the boat show. Since then, I've met two other owners who did exactly the same thing; one purchased an Oyster and the other a Hylas from the same show. The vast majority are probably just looking, but sales do happen, but usually several months following the show.

Our Hunter 450 was in the Dana Point boat show last May, and sold within 8 days through the broker who had it in the show.
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Old 05-06-2013, 00:53   #114
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Most teak decks i've seen recently are secret screwed (they dont penetrate the glass deck) between the planks in the groove to hold down whilst the Sika bonds, haven't seen any screwed and plugged decks other than on timber boats.

Cheers Frank
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:48   #115
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I just replaced the teak deck on our 47.7 first. The old deck was secret screwed and I can assure you that every single little screw (around 10000) did penetrate the surface under the teak. Had to fill all those holes, pretty big job.
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:53   #116
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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I just replaced the teak deck on our 47.7 first. The old deck was secret screwed and I can assure you that every single little screw (around 10000) did penetrate the surface under the teak. Had to fill all those holes, pretty big job.
Of course it penetrates the glass but shouldn't go through the glass causing leaks if done correctly.

If you remove the teak of course you will have to fill and sand after tediously removing all Sika.

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:58   #117
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Of course it penetrates the glass but shouldn't go through the glass causing leaks if done correctly.

If you remove the teak of course you will have to fill and sand after tediously removing all Sika.

Cheers
Sorry, misunderstood :-)
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:59   #118
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I can't talk about the Beneteau Sense, as I have not been on one. We have just sea trialled and surveyed a Beneteau Oceanis 50 (2007 model), and are now in the process of finalising the purchase. It has the CE plate in the cockpit and we are very happy with the build quality and design layout. It was built in France.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:31   #119
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Sorry, misunderstood :-)
Thought you may have but hey i bet a lot have been screwed through the decks by owners believing the Sika would be forever....

Cheers
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Old 14-06-2013, 14:39   #120
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Greetings
I believe Simonpickard had asked for feedback on the different boats in the same price level and how they compared, I've been a bit busy of late in purchasing a new/old boat, putting the current boat on the market and doing those things that I need to do to pay for my boating habit (addiction) and hadn't replied.
I was reminded of this thread after helping a friend transport his recently purchased Beni First back about 120 miles from where he purchased it, we did sail it all the way since said friend did not check the fuel gauge for function by actually putting a dipstick in the tank to verify, but that's a story for another time.
The boat sailed fine, as well as my 30 year old C&C of similar size but, and here's the but, the cabinetry did not fit well, with crappy finish and ill fitting doors, the running gear was crap (as delivered from the factory). Sailing upwind all day in 20 knots on the nose in 4-8 foot swells and some chop the creaking down below was excessive. My 30 year old boat has none of that or at least minimal in similar conditions. The tabbing work where done, was rough, the wiring is not the quality I like to see with minimal securing in some high friction areas, plywwood bulkheads not finished or sealed on edges. Ever had to replace a delaminated bulkhead? I have. THe cockpit layout was, well, not to my liking, very difficult to get around and function while heeled running in swells. THat 30 year old C&C had superior cockpit ergonomics.
The Catalinas I've seen in the same price point are built sturdier, with better fit and finish, better quality rigging, simpler but works well, more attention to tabbing and fiberglass quality overall. As for performance they tend to be a little slower but it depends on what your looking for, overall a better bet when looking for a used boat, but of course it depends on how the example was maintained as with any make. Most bang for the buck.
Hunters, another boat in this price point, had quality issues earlier on, they have improved in recent history but the older ones varied from model to model, I would suggest looking very closely at joints and grids in those boats, apart from the obvious blistering issues common with many 80's/ 90's boats of certain makes.
My take on it is that I would go a few years older in the same used boat price point to get a better boat, a Sabre for example if your looking for an all around boat, well made with an eye for detail, Tartan,s or if your looking for performance J's or C&C's. Pearson and Bristol also made some very good boats.
Of the new boats? You get what you pay for, sometimes the low initial purchase price isn't such a deal a few years down the road when your having to upgrade and replace. If your buying new take the long view, how long are you going to own it and how will your needs evolve.
I've always tried to get the most boat for my money but have always had an eye for the build quality after having to do major work on a couple of boats I owned early on that I thought were a "bargain".
If your asking about boats further out of the mainstream I won't go into those now since they tend to be more specialized in their intent and appeal to a smaller audience, oh, and tend to cost more.
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