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Old 02-06-2013, 21:38   #76
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by simonpickard View Post
"Long story short? There are other builders in that price point producing much better built yachts, not as flashy, maybe no hot tub, but much better boats to live with over the long haul"

Just wondering if you have a spare sec if you wouldn't mind rating your findings? Would be very interested to hear this.

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Simon
I would also like to hear about it!!!!!
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:53   #77
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

What are you looking for? Just trying to figure out the context, do you mean what have I seen while looking through different manufacturers vessels?
What type of boat are you looking into, cruising, racing, racer/cruiser, cruiser racer?
I've owned mostly racer/cruisers but am moving to a full on cruiser due to changing needs but have been an equal opportunity picker when looking at auction boats to turn into extra cash so I've looked through quite a few. I only pick one here and there since those opportunities do not come often and turning a profit on an insurance boat is hard to do, I don't rely on it for my income, the ones that have been worthwhile were mostly yard/bank auction specials.
It has opened my eyes to the differences in construction quality and why some cost far more than others but there are big differences within price points, it depends on what you want.
It's a hard balance to pull off even for the high end builders, building boats is a hard way to make money.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:57   #78
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

For me...just generally what problems you find with different manufacturers...
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:30   #79
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
That's right.
Just like going to a car show.
The difference in quality of a Bentley, a Rolls, and a Lamborghini will be apparently different than that of a Volvo, an Audi, or a BMW.
Although the most glaring difference is in the perception of the snobs who own them.
Reminds me of that old joke...
"What's the difference between a Rolls Royce and a porcupine? With a porcupine the pricks are on the outside."
I was getting myself worked up reading all this. My blood pressure rose and rose and rose. This whole post was angering me in ways I have never been angered in the four years I've been a member here. "THOSE OF US WHO WILL NEVER BE CAUGHT DEAD ON A PRODUCTION BOAT" was a statement that hit me as a particularly offensive example of what angered me. Obviously, anyone who could write a statement like that with a straight face is a person of such a vast self-image of superiority that I had to go for a walk to summon my thoughts/lower my BP. Then it occurred to me that any person who names himself "Curmudgeon" probably is an ass-hole anyway, and why bother...In the end, a few good people came forth and replied better than I can. The above is one example. Buy the boat you can afford. And choose your advisors carefully. There are a good few on this site.Ty
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:46   #80
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

"What are you looking for? Just trying to figure out the context, do you mean what have I seen while looking through different manufacturers vessels?
What type of boat are you looking into, cruising, racing, racer/cruiser, cruiser racer?"

Hi there,

Looking for a cruiser, the type of boat I've been looking at is something like the Jeanneau 39i (which I've chartered). We don't have much "stuff" so the storage on this boat seemed fine to us.
The idea would be to do some coastal hopping around the med, and then sail over the pond. From there, who knows..
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:56   #81
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CE ratings make a boat safer....
Buy an 80's Hunter sail it to the UK and apply for the CE inspection...
It would have cost me £12,000 back in '05 for 18 safety stickers
Its a Political/Commercial move to stem the flood of cheap 2nd hand boats that were coming into the EU and stuffing the EU manufacturers profits... much like Japanese bikes back in the '70's... then they just changed the licencing laws.. and made my 250cc that I'd owned for 3yrs illegal to ride on just a car licence.
No CE was brought in at the behest of the British marine industry to allow easier access to European markets without having to go through individual country certification.

It's does ensure the boat is built to a reasonable standard. Even then its not perfect. Leaving aside the 5 year life on seacocks would you like to point put other specific CE failings


By the way I've been through. The Halberg. Rassy plant twice. It's a finely built boat with lots of extra teak etc, however the basic structurre deck hardware etc are similar to Jeaneauu


Dave
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:00   #82
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

IMHO it means virtually nothing. The manufacturers themselves do the ratings, and they're about conformity, not quality. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
cat A are not self certified.

CE class A does mean the scantlings , stability etc meet minimum standards its not perfect ( like the 5 year seacocks life ) but what do you specifically criticise on CE certification

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Old 03-06-2013, 18:02   #83
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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post

Correct, it means nothing. Go to the boat show... the difference in quality and workmanship between the HRs, Oysters, Hylas just to name a few and the less expensive production boats should be obvious to anyone with an open mind, average intelligence and 20/20 vision.
I've been to HR , under the fancy teak , is a boat built basically like a Jeaneau , same brand masts deck hardware , engines and cored hull !!!


Dave
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:38   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

I've been to HR , under the fancy teak , is a boat built basically like a Jeaneau , same brand masts deck hardware , engines and cored hull !!!

Dave
How are the seacocks on the HR? oh yeah, not much better than the brass used on the production boats. Why no flanged seacocks?
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:46   #85
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by ty.gregory View Post
I was getting myself worked up reading all this. My blood pressure rose and rose and rose. This whole post was angering me in ways I have never been angered in the four years I've been a member here. "THOSE OF US WHO WILL NEVER BE CAUGHT DEAD ON A PRODUCTION BOAT" was a statement that hit me as a particularly offensive example of what angered me. Obviously, anyone who could write a statement like that with a straight face is a person of such a vast self-image of superiority that I had to go for a walk to summon my thoughts/lower my BP. Then it occurred to me that any person who names himself "Curmudgeon" probably is an ass-hole anyway, and why bother...In the end, a few good people came forth and replied better than I can. The above is one example. Buy the boat you can afford. And choose your advisors carefully. There are a good few on this site.Ty
My wife and I are looking for a live-aboard that we could base on the west coast and venture out into the Pacific. Our current boat (B-36.7) is much too tender to do more than limited coastal cruising and does not have much storage. Been looking at Pacific Seacraft 40's.
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Old 03-06-2013, 19:10   #86
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Built basically like like a Jeanneau ? you're kidding !

Take two fairly comparable boats such as the HR43 and Sun Odyssey 439. HR is bigger, better ( assuming you don't want a lightweight racer/cruiser ) and stronger in every aspect. 3/8 v 5/16 anchor chain, shared Selden mast but HR is 1 size bigger, 74 hp Volvo Penta v 54 hp Yanmar, 3/8" v 1/4" deck teak, 30 kg v 20 kg anchor, 28,000 lbs claimed disp v 21,253 claimed disp.

3 tons of extra teak ? Hardly
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:18   #87
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I've been to HR , under the fancy teak , is a boat built basically like a Jeaneau , same brand masts deck hardware , engines and cored hull !!!


Dave
Sorry..... There is no comparison in lay up, design, or hardware between the two.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:01   #88
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Sorry..... There is no comparison in lay up, design, or hardware between the two.
Firstly , as with premium cars, A lot of price differential is marketing based, HR can't sell a cheaper boat , nobody would buy it.

Secondly a huge amount of cost is absorbed in the essentially manual assembly process in HR ( yes there is some automation but not much) Swedish labout is not cheap. While finely finished teak interiors are lovely, they do not add much to the basic yacht itself.

If one looks at basic hardware ( plumbing, deck, hatches , pedestals.mast, engine, electronics etc) , one seems very similar name brand equipment, )

Of course Beneteau/Jeanbeau is built with far more automation, a lower quality ( though well acceptable) interior cabinetry , thats mostly laser cut and simply assembled.

But the basic boat is as strong as its needs, and not far from so called premium makes ( HR is now a fin keel and spade company etc too).

MY BMWx5 and toyota corolla will both do 150 K miles and will last to the end. One is three times the price of the other,

for example the Bavaria 37 is 7T, the Hr is 7.5T, not a great difference!.

Im not arguing the quality and build are identical , but the french boats are good boats, the swedish one is a very good boat, whether its worth twice the money , thats another thing.



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Old 04-06-2013, 09:16   #89
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pirate Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
No CE was brought in at the behest of the British marine industry to allow easier access to European markets without having to go through individual country certification.
Dave
CE was brought into the UK August 1st, 2005.... how many UK sailboat producers/manufacturers were left by then...
The Crabber Series.. maybe 3 others...
Westerly, Sadler, Colvic, Hurley to name but a few had died the death...
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:17   #90
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Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Built basically like like a Jeanneau ? you're kidding !

Take two fairly comparable boats such as the HR43 and Sun Odyssey 439. HR is bigger, better ( assuming you don't want a lightweight racer/cruiser ) and stronger in every aspect. 3/8 v 5/16 anchor chain, shared Selden mast but HR is 1 size bigger, 74 hp Volvo Penta v 54 hp Yanmar, 3/8" v 1/4" deck teak, 30 kg v 20 kg anchor, 28,000 lbs claimed disp v 21,253 claimed disp.

3 tons of extra teak ? Hardly
Exactly, just figurate where are this 6000 pounds diference....
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