Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-05-2013, 12:02   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/vPainkiller View Post

"Groupe Beneteau" have gone the way of many, building Down to Price, at the expense of Quality. C'est la vie, je suppose."

This is another way of saying they are doing what is necessary to stay in business. They could always maintain the same "better" quality and go out of business because no one can afford their boats. How many "higher" quality boats are selling the marketplace these days?

Scott
Either way it's got to be a really bad time to be in the "new boat" business.
Price them too high and few people want them. Reduce quality and suffer reputation (like this).
Now more than ever it's a good time to be looking at boats that were built even just 5-10 years ago for best value per dollar.
Seems like most builders were producing much better quality then than now.
__________________

__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 12:35   #17
Registered User
 
typhoon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 945
Images: 1
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I think the hay day for good boats was the late 80's to the late 90's . Most builders got good resin and got the osmosis problem taken care of , Jeanneau and Beneteau had a few boats in the line that were stick built , and they all had good teak for interiors . Heck, even Hunter were building some of there best models then.
We even got lead keels back then. Now its an optional upgrade and that's if it's even offered .

Regards
__________________

__________________
typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 13:02   #18
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I think the heyday is now!

Any company still afloat is lean and ready to do a deal.
Theres a huge variety of new boats all using the latest tech production methods or they would have gone broke in the last few years.
theres a huge range of price levels. From easy affordable Beneteaus, Bavarias Catalinas etc through to top end production boats like Swans, and Oysters and every level in between... Halberg Rassys, Amel 54s etc

One can get safe as a brick Island Packets or racy-go-verrrry-fast Catanas.

one can go big, small, fast, slow, Oyster comfortable or Swan hard. Itrs all out there right now. How someone can complain about this situatiion is a wonder. and the person who wrote they thought the old time builders were not in it for the money... well thats just BS. They were in it to build boats to make money to feed their wife and kids. Same then as now... except now you have more companines with integrity.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 13:15   #19
Registered User
 
Sabbatical II's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie
Boat: Bluewater 420 CC
Posts: 756
Images: 1
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

The factor determining what people buy is usually the budget. I also was at the Sanctuary Cove boat show and it was no surprise to me that the cheapest boats were the poorest quality with the slickest salesman and glossiest brochures. I also think that the Catalinas seem better built than the Beneteau / Bavaria / Lagoons and price wise it doesn't make that much difference. But hey, do you want to tell your friends you bought a new 45' yacht (maybe a Bavaria or Hanse or Bene?) or only a 38' Catalina?. For the same money,18' of an Oyster just wouldn't impress.That's the difference. Last night in the Brisbane Marina I'm in for this week, the after work Friday afternoon drinks were being hosted in the cockpit of some of these slick production boats and there were some impressive looking women dropping in after work to join in. It seems to me that the new generation of production boats are built for this market where you don't even have to let the docklines go. Apart from that it's all about keeping the business afloat. The high volume production companies have huge infrastructute to support and it can only be done by selling large numbers of boats. The cheap ticket price gets new players into the market because all you old yachties are hanging onto your better built older models.
__________________
Greg
Sabbatical II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 13:21   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I think the heyday is now!

Any company still afloat is lean and ready to do a deal.
Theres a huge variety of new boats all using the latest tech production methods or they would have gone broke in the last few years.
theres a huge range of price levels. From easy affordable Beneteaus, Bavarias Catalinas etc through to top end production boats like Swans, and Oysters and every level in between... Halberg Rassys, Amel 54s etc

One can get safe as a brick Island Packets or racy-go-verrrry-fast Catanas.

one can go big, small, fast, slow, Oyster comfortable or Swan hard. Itrs all out there right now. How someone can complain about this situatiion is a wonder. and the person who wrote they thought the old time builders were not in it for the money... well thats just BS. They were in it to build boats to make money to feed their wife and kids. Same then as now... except now you have more companines with integrity.
Well said! All true.
It's just that the cloak and veil inflation that we have been going through has just made quality less affordable and thus less available to most folks.
But yes, if you can afford it or have enough confidence in the future of the economy to go out on a limb you can definitely still buy the quality that you are seeking.
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 13:26   #21
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncingyellow View Post
checked out a similar size Hanse a bit more lacking in flair but was 20% faster says the sales man
Always a good source of information. It's a known fact that salesmen in the marine industry never prevaricate when comparing their products to the competition.

Well, almost never.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 14:03   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

I don't know how to reconcile the claim of 'companies with integrity' with recent blossoming among the big name builders of practices like using brass for seacocks.

What next. Papier maché decks? Petrol engines?

This does not remotely resemble integrity.
This is not "building down to a price".
This is the unprincipled and dangerous substitution of unsuitable materials, on the basis that they look similar to marine materials.

Brass has no place on a seagoing boat in any structural context.

Blocking underwater openings with a material which is effectively partially soluble in seawater is hardly a trivial issue.

If the West keeps adopting practices from China and vice versa, we could end up swapping places.

Sailors should beware of boats and equipment designed by accountants.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 15:34   #23
Registered User
 
Sabbatical II's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie
Boat: Bluewater 420 CC
Posts: 756
Images: 1
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post

If the West keeps adopting practices from China and vice versa, we could end up swapping places.

Sailors should beware of boats and equipment designed by accountants.
It's us, the potential customers in the west that dictate what products manufacturers will offer. And what the market has made clear is that we want cheap. So cheap and nasty it is. The promotional material seems to be saying that we can have quality without paying for it. That's why we need accountants.
__________________
Greg
Sabbatical II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 15:55   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabbatical II View Post
It's us, the potential customers in the west that dictate what products manufacturers will offer. And what the market has made clear is that we want cheap. So cheap and nasty it is. The promotional material seems to be saying that we can have quality without paying for it. That's why we need accountants.
I think I understand your last sentence, and if I do, I agree entirely.

It seems to me the problem we're discussing here is just one obvious element of a much bigger problem: the vast majority of the public have become addicted to simulations of reality.

Many if not most who purchase new 'affordable, classy' boats are entirely happy with a simulation of a sailing vessel, because they want to simulate being sailors.

I can't think of any other explanation for the 95% syndrome, whereby only 5% of marina berths are regularly vacated.

A vessel which does not actually get taken on authentic sailing trips does not need authentic seakeeping capability.

- - - - -

By extension, brass is a fair simulation of bronze, but I think it's a step too far even for the target market, and I think the accountants have lost the plot.

I say this because even a vessel which never leaves the marina slot can still sink alongside.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 15:55   #25
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

A fair bit might be in peoples own perception.

As is obvious reading forums there are folks who think nothing built in the last 30 or 40 years is fitting and they either dont go sailing or they have what I consider an ongoing floating (sometimes) project boat.

Some go to boat shows now with dreams of circumnavigating in their heads for years... then see the boat and read these forums and the dream is shattered and they go off to play lawn bowls for their retirement.

Some will only go to sea in a Swan. So never go. Lawn bowls for them too.
The photo below is of a Swan 90 footer, the saloon.


Well F me! I'd prefer my Beneteau! What a stark ugly ultra 'functional' saloon!
But some would prefer to play bowls....

Just to contrast the Swan 90 this tiddler an Oyster 65



Hang out for that and work yourself to death?

Or for 5% of the cost of the above go for the below


Yes, I had to change a sea cock a few months ago. Did it in the water. Not the thru hull just the seacock. Yes after 10 years it needed changing. Simple, inexpensive maintenance job. Cost about the same as a new Lawn Bows que ball... whatever they call them...

So yes, all modern boats are sh!t, all modern sailors are morons and all companies are ripoffs.

Thats fine that folks think that. I know I'll be out sailing what will you be doing?

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 16:15   #26
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,209
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
A fair bit might be in peoples own perception.

As is obvious reading forums there are folks who think nothing built in the last 30 or 40 years is fitting and they either dont go sailing or they have what I consider an ongoing floating (sometimes) project boat.

Some go to boat shows now with dreams of circumnavigating in their heads for years... then see the boat and read these forums and the dream is shattered and they go off to play lawn bowls for their retirement.

Some will only go to sea in a Swan. So never go. Lawn bowls for them too.
The photo below is of a Swan 90 footer, the saloon.


Well F me! I'd prefer my Beneteau! What a stark ugly ultra 'functional' saloon!
But some would prefer to play bowls....

Just to contrast the Swan 90 this tiddler an Oyster 65



Hang out for that and work yourself to death?

Or for 5% of the cost of the above go for the below


Yes, I had to change a sea cock a few months ago. Did it in the water. Not the thru hull just the seacock. Yes after 10 years it needed changing. Simple, inexpensive maintenance job. Cost about the same as a new Lawn Bows que ball... whatever they call them...

So yes, all modern boats are sh!t, all modern sailors are morons and all companies are ripoffs.

Thats fine that folks think that. I know I'll be out sailing what will you be doing?

I could not possibly comment...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 17:23   #27
Registered User
 
Dockbound2long's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 20
So with quality boats you pay more and if you ever sell and the boats are well maintained you will get a better price for them. Not sure if that's as important as sailing on a well made boat which holds together well and costs less to maintain. I remember a friends price point boat 20 years ago and I thought the tool tray drawer with cut outs for the tools was cool until the bottom fell out because it was attached with brads.
__________________
Dockbound2long is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 17:40   #28
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
You can go put today and buy
a Hanse , bene or any reasonable production boat. With a little care , it will take u around the world.

What more do u want

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 17:46   #29
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockbound2long View Post
. I remember a friends price point boat 20 years ago and I thought the tool tray drawer with cut outs for the tools was cool until the bottom fell out because it was attached with brads.
So let me get this straight... your attitude is because 20 years ago someones tool draw fell apart....
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2013, 18:01   #30
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,209
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Beneteau sense quality issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
So let me get this straight... your attitude is because 20 years ago someones tool draw fell apart....
From little acorns... grow mighty oaks...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.