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Old 07-03-2014, 17:38   #196
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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The flames will start now lol
Do not think so.
With well prepared boat and some prudence, why not?
Sense is not designed with this on mind, but if somebody want to do it?
On the other hand the Oceanis 55 is more suitable for ocean passage making.
Beneteau Group is now covering all bases with their range (if You add Lagoon, Jeanneau, Bordeaux, CNB...)
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:55   #197
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Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Do not think so.
With well prepared boat and some prudence, why not?
Sense is not designed with this on mind, but if somebody want to do it?
On the other hand the Oceanis 55 is more suitable for ocean passage making.
Beneteau Group is now covering all bases with their range (if You add Lagoon, Jeanneau, Bordeaux, CNB...)

Well of course it is, it's the biggest sailboat manufacturer on the planet. Vive l'France


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Old 07-03-2014, 18:41   #198
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Hull liners are the face of evil!
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Old 07-03-2014, 18:51   #199
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder but to this beholder they are just plain ugly. Maybe evil too.

On the other hand, the idea of a light and bright cabin is good. HR cabins are a little austere.
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Old 07-03-2014, 19:01   #200
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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No.

What I mean specifically, is that my daughters furnished their dorm rooms in college with Ikea furniture, bed, desk etc. The crap they bought was so cheaply made out of particle board that it fell apart in less than five years... Then we threw it in the trash. If you prefer your boat made the same way... Then buy one made the same way.

In our view, the Hunter 40 was much nicer than the comparable Beneteau.

Do you work for Beneteau? Why so defensive?
No, I do not work for Beneteau and never had a Beneteau but is hard for me that you seem to fail to understand that the cheap Ikea particle board that furnished your daughter's dorm room (if only lasted 5 years) has nothing to do with the engineered wood that Jeanneau uses. Not only Jeanneau but top luxury yachts with 100ft and more when they are designed not only cruise but to race use engineered wood for the interiors not because its cheaper but because it can make an interior with 1/3 of the weight and therefore improve the sailing potential and seaworthiness of the yacht (lowering the CG).

I have not a problem with you liking more an heavier massif wood interior. That is a question of taste, but I find odd that you think that a boat interior made with engineered wood is necessarily cheap or that others could not prefer the design superior creative flexibility of that material or the lesser weight.
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Old 07-03-2014, 19:39   #201
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Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

There is no particle board on a beneteau. It's veneered plywood , just like HR , oyster , etc. the difference being a robot cuts it as opposed to a highly paid and protected Swedish cabinet maker.

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Old 07-03-2014, 19:41   #202
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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No, I do not work for Beneteau and never had a Beneteau but is hard for me that you seem to fail to understand that the cheap Ikea particle board that furnished your daughter's dorm room (if only lasted 5 years) has nothing to do with the engineered wood that Jeanneau uses. Not only Jeanneau but top luxury yachts with 100ft and more when they are designed not only cruise but to race use engineered wood for the interiors not because its cheaper but because it can make an interior with 1/3 of the weight and therefore improve the sailing potential and seaworthiness of the yacht (lowering the CG).

I have not a problem with you liking more an heavier massif wood interior. That is a question of taste, but I find odd that you think that a boat interior made with engineered wood is necessarily cheap or that others could not prefer the design superior creative flexibility of that material or the lesser weight.
Particle board or Engineered wood... whatever you prefer to call it = crap.

I'm not talking about marine grade plywood, I'm refering to the particleboard Ikea uses to make some of their junk furnature... The same stuff a couple of CF members seem so fond of.
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Old 07-03-2014, 19:46   #203
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Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Particle board or Engineered wood... whatever you prefer to call it = crap

Marine veneer plywood is crap, that's about 99%of everything afloat.


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Old 07-03-2014, 19:47   #204
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Particle board or Engineered wood... whatever you prefer to call it = crap
I don't think you know what you are talking about here. "Engineered wood" is usually a composite of foam or polypropylene honeycomb sandwiched between a finished wood veneer and either wood or fiberglass on the other side. It is very common on catamarans and other weight-sensitive boats, and looks and performs very well.

It certainly is not "crap", but it does beat the crap out of 800lbs of dead rainforest trees.

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Old 07-03-2014, 19:49   #205
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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It happens Sense 55 and Oceanis 55 are different boats. Even different ranges. Designed for different markets, use and so on...
And (quite) big tankage means just comfort for Sense users.

Cheers
Sorry about that. The hulls are not that different but here you have it corrected, now both about the Sense 55:

Here is what Bluewater sailing magazine said about that when they tested the Sense 55:

"The finish of the Sense 55 is very much up to custom yacht style and detail, as is true of the Oceanis models in the 55+ range. In this new Sense you have a boat that is as thoroughly innovative as any in the marketplace and designed not just for modern chic, but for the way we like to live on our boats. ...

The 55 handled well as we threw her through tack after tack. The boat has twin wheels and twin rudders, so even when heeled slightly the rudders bite the water firmly. Plus, you can always steer from whichever side of the cockpit gives you the best view of the sails and surrounding channel. The 55 tacked inside 90 degrees and the small headsail was a snap to trim.

In the building breeze, the 55 tended to translate wind pressure into forward motion more than into heeling angle....

We close-reached out into the open waters of the Florida Straits at a very pleasant 7 knots and then cracked off a bit more so we could watch the speedo climb past 8. With the twin rudders, the 55 steered like she was on rails and held her line very nicely—easy on both the helmsman and the autopilot....

Underway, the 55 delivers the sailing performance that makes cruising modern designs so much fun. You will be sailing at 8 knots most of the time and will see speeds over 10 regularly, particularly if you upgrade to a folding or feathering propeller. This speed enables you to cover lots of ground in short amounts of time and adds to the excitement and fun of passagemaking....

Under power and around the docks, the 55 really shines. She can achieve very high average speeds on windless days and deliver easy and trouble-free docking if the optional Dock & Go system has been installed. Those looking for a large family cruiser that offers all of the performance and comfort you could need, plus the elegance of a large luxury yacht, will find that the new Sense 55 fits the bill very nicely."


BLUE WATER BOATS | BENETEAU SENSE 55 | BLUE WATER SAILING MAGAZINE | CRUISING, SAILING, BOAT REVIEWS, GEAR, CHARTERING | 888.800.SAIL

On Cruising Compass that tested the boat at the same time they say:

"Underway, the 55 delivers the sailing performance that makes cruising modern designs so much fun. You will be sailing at 8 knots most of the time and will see speeds over 10 regularly, particularly if you upgrade to a folding or feathering propeller. This speed enables you to cover lots of ground in short amounts of time and adds to the excitement and fun of passagemaking".

Boat Review: Beneteau Sense 55 | Cruising Compass ? The Free Weekly Newsletter for Sailors & Cruisers ? ©2013 Blue Water Sailing[/QUOTE]

Yes I know, it is the same test (that's the same company) but the one published on BW magazine is just more complete. of course this is basically the same that says the tests on French, Italian, German or other European magazines that tested the boat but I thought that you had more trust on an American one.

Here you have an American magazine editor sayng the same I had said in what regards the type of hull:



Here you can see how the boat sails well on the the Yachting world test. it is the Sense 50, but the designer is the same and the hulls are very similar. The 55 is just a bit faster:



And here you have a very complete test on the "little" Sense 46, again the same type of hull, designed by the same NA firm (Berret Racoupeau). A very good boat for living aboard permanently and a very good cruiser.


They are developing a wing sail for this boat so it is possible that in two years you will see it even more modern than it is now
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Old 07-03-2014, 20:01   #206
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Actually teak in older quality boats is not necessarily heavy. The bulkheads are generally a high quality teak plywood as is most of the interior cabinets with solid teak trim. Its really unlikely that given the same amount of cabinets that the newer boats are any lighter in weight in that dept. All the major builders used teak for years because teak has natural oils that make it ideal for this purpose.
If you use mahogany as HR uses or any of the newer lighter woods ash/cherry or the like you have to have it varnished and keep it up or it will degrade in the marine environment, mahogany will turn black if not sealed. Teak can be left bare and still hold up to the harshest weather even on the exterior BUT its not cheap today and that is the number one reason it is not used by production builders. If a builder will install brass skin fittings to save a buck do you honestly think he will pay the cost of a teak interior? The one big difference in teak interiors is the actual thickness of the veneer used, some of them could barely be sanded once and you'd be through it. Teak is about the most robust wood available for boat interiors but because of price it will seldom be seen in new production boats.
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Old 07-03-2014, 20:09   #207
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I would not place too much credence in a boat test by a sailing magazine as they are nothing without ad revenue and the builders do a lot of advertising. I think its fair today to say that pretty much all of the new boats are decent sailboats and do the job they were designed to do. No, many of them are not built as tough as some boats both past and present but most if not all are tough enough to sail where most everyone is sailing.
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Old 07-03-2014, 20:10   #208
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

Solid teak cabinets haven't been seen in HR for a long time. Anyway Burmese teak is now illegal in the EU , so that's that.

Plywood with veneer has been the stable for oyster, hr for a long time, solid teak trim, yes. Panels and doors ,frames , no. Plywood is far more stable and less prone to warp, or seize then solid. It's makes a far superior panel then solid.

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Old 07-03-2014, 20:11   #209
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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I would not place too much credence in a boat test by a sailing magazine as they are nothing without ad revenue and the builders do a lot of advertising. I think its fair today to say that pretty much all of the new boats are decent sailboats and do the job they were designed to do. No, many of them are not built as tough as some boats both past and present but most if not all are tough enough to sail where most everyone is sailing.

Almost everything built today is tougher then the skipper so that's enough.

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Old 07-03-2014, 20:44   #210
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

After heading to the boat show and seeing for myself the same lack of quality issues surrounding the Beneteau Sense line... I refer back to page one of the postings where other participants on this thread noticed the same.... Except for one possible factory shill.
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