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Old 07-03-2014, 11:13   #181
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I think its a stretch to suggest that the design comes from an offshore racer, other than the extreme beam run aft there is little else in common. These boats were not intended for crossing oceans although as we all know almost any boat will cross an ocean.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:58   #182
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I'll agree with robert sailor... I know Beneteau's design team designed some older Open race boats, but to say they have much in common to an Open series vessel is to compare a sports sedan with "Race-Inspired seats" to a race car.

The interior is still horribly suited for offshore use, with a wide open galley and a lot of open floor space that seems wasted. Beneteau is not aiming at the market of racers. I wish the company would go back to making a dedicated First line, where you could get a hull such as the Sense 55, but have a more dedicated offshore interior from the factory. If they are all molds that are dropped in, it seems like something that wouldn't be an expensive option to Beneteau for people who wanted a more tailored offshore vessel?

In any case, just looking at the numbers on the Sense 55 - nice tankage, with 256 and 219 gallons of water and fuel, respectively.
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:15   #183
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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It would not be more correct to say that you don't appreciate that type of modern interior design that you seem to associate with Ikea?
No.

What I mean specifically, is that my daughters furnished their dorm rooms in college with Ikea furniture, bed, desk etc. The crap they bought was so cheaply made out of particle board that it fell apart in less than five years... Then we threw it in the trash. If you prefer your boat made the same way... Then buy one made the same way.

In our view, the Hunter 40 was much nicer than the comparable Beneteau.

Do you work for Beneteau? Why so defensive?
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:51   #184
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Beneteau is not aiming at the market of racers. I wish the company would go back to making a dedicated First line, where you could get a hull such as the Sense 55, but have a more dedicated offshore interior from the factory.
Beneteau still built First line, but Firsts are oriented to IRC racing, (won IRC3 in last Sydney - Hobart) and the shape of Sense is probably not the best choice for IRC.

Interesting thing - some of my friends sailed Sense (different models) and their opinion is Beneteau made this hull going upwind well beyond expectations. So I looked closer at accessible footages, and this is much different in forward part from the ocean racers of Volvo or IMOCA kind.

Anyway - the boat was invented and designed for inshore work. Mainly for vacation anchorage - harbour - hopping.

And Beneteau marketing is completely up to this. They gennerally are suggesting Sense is kind of floating vacation condo.

I think the boat is perfectly suitable in this role, and if in addition give opportunity for some nice sailing in moderate weather...

For offshore work - it is plainly not suitable boat, first of all because of after part (including companionway) extremely exposed and vulnerable to any following breaking waves , next because of stability much inferior to other Beneteau ranges and at least because of the interior designed strictl to fit intended use of the boat.

Really, all quality discussion aside - my feeling is Beneteau defined a niche in the market and addressed it perfectly.

But if You want to buy one, just prepare to seal the plywood edges thorough
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Old 07-03-2014, 13:35   #185
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

I agree 100% with the review made by DoubleWiskey regarding the target market for the Sense line.
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:28   #186
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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What I mean specifically, is that my daughters furnished their dorm rooms in college with Ikea furniture, bed, desk etc. The crap they bought was so cheaply made out of particle board that it fell apart in less than five years... Then we threw it in the trash. If you prefer your boat made the same way... Then buy one made the same way.
Once again, my Ikea furniture is doing fine after 10 years of use.

Listen, I know BMW is a better car than a Kia in most respects, but I can still drive a new Kia from one end of the country to the other without a problem. I'm pretty confident I could still do it even 5 or 10 years later, without any more maintenance than the BMW.

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Do you work for Beneteau? Why so defensive?
I can't speak for anyone else, but my earlier post here might help you understand why he is "defensive". If yachting was restricted to yachts like Oyster and HR, the majority of boat owners would be priced out and the hobby would largely disappear.
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:42   #187
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

DW, yeah you're right about the companionway. Maybe if they made some sort of watertight, industrial strength door.

Wasn't aware that the First line was still in production. The only boat show I ever go to is the Miami show, and hell you wouldn't know anyone still made boats anymore by what shows up there. Quite a shame really.
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:54   #188
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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DW, yeah you're right about the companionway. Maybe if they made some sort of watertight, industrial strength door.

Wasn't aware that the First line was still in production. The only boat show I ever go to is the Miami show, and hell you wouldn't know anyone still made boats anymore by what shows up there. Quite a shame really.
It is not only companionway. Cockpit floor is much lower than on IMOCA's.
There are huge cockpit lockers with weak covers. And more details. It is not built for any bad weather offshore. If somebody want take Sense for ocean - it is lot of work. Doable, of course. More of a problem is very low AVS, and big area entangled by righting moment curve after this.

As to Firsts - may be market in US for middle sized budget IRC boats is low now, so no incentive to present such boats on shows? I do know nothing about this
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Old 07-03-2014, 16:04   #189
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

What is the AVS of the Sense

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Old 07-03-2014, 16:18   #190
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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What is the AVS of the Sense
Dave
I don't remember exactly the number, but angle of vanishing stability for Sense was published (Yachting Monthly, if I remember correctly) as lower than 120 degrees. Not comfortable (for me) for ocean crossings, but still perfectly good for boat designed as coastal cruiser, with great initial stability of shape.
As always: something for something. I think the compromise is rather sound in this case.
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Old 07-03-2014, 16:21   #191
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Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
I don't remember exactly the number, but angle of vanishing stability for Sense was published (Yachting Monthly, if I remember correctly) as lower than 120 degrees. Not comfortable (for me) for ocean crossings, but still perfectly good for boat designed as coastal cruiser, with great initial stability of shape.
As always: something for something. I think the compromise is rather sound in this case.

Given that some of the worst weather in experienced on the continental shelf of say Northern Europe , why would a coastal cruiser be designated as less weatherly. Ocean cruising is actually less taxing IMHO.

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Old 07-03-2014, 16:27   #192
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Given that some of the worst weather in experienced on the continental shelf of say Northern Europe , why would a coastal cruiser be designated as less weatherly. Ocean cruising is actually less taxing IMHO.

Dave
I just suppose that the Sense owners, as "targeted" by Beneteau are of the kind to be found in best shelter around in any worse that fine weather.
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:07   #193
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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I'll agree with robert sailor... I know Beneteau's design team designed some older Open race boats, but to say they have much in common to an Open series vessel is to compare a sports sedan with "Race-Inspired seats" to a race car.

... If they are all molds that are dropped in, it seems like something that wouldn't be an expensive option to Beneteau for people who wanted a more tailored offshore vessel?

In any case, just looking at the numbers on the Sense 55 - nice tankage, with 256 and 219 gallons of water and fuel, respectively.
What do you mean by Beneteau's design theam? They are not like Catalina or Hunter. The boats are not designed "in the house" but by some of the best French NA; almost all have been or are actively involved on the racing scene, mostly Open boats for solo sailors.

I did not have compared a Sense with a racing Open boat, said that the hulls come from the same family and work the same way, with the the racing boat having a much smaller wet surface basically due to a much lesser weight. These type of hulls was developed on solo Open racing boats.

Yes, that tankage means that the boat was designed not only for coastal cruising but also with passagemaking in mind. It is kind of odd to think that a 55ft boat like this is not at ease offshore.

Here is what Bluewater sailing magazine said about that when they tested the Sense 55:

"The new Oceanis 55, with a very modern hull and powerful rig, is a lot of fun to sail and is both fast and very sea kindly. You certainly could sail the boat anywhere and will do so in comfort and style....

It is hard not to like a boat that sails comfortably upwind in 28 knots apparent wind without getting you wet or knocking out a filling. It is even harder not to like a boat that reaches off in a breeze in steady double digit speeds. The Oceanis 55 is a fine sailboat, first and foremost."


BLUE WATER BOATS | BENETEAU OCEANIS 55 | BLUE WATER SAILING MAGAZINE | CRUISING, SAILING, BOAT REVIEWS, GEAR, CHARTERING | 888.800.SAIL

On Cruising Compass that tested the boat at the same time they say:

"Underway, the 55 delivers the sailing performance that makes cruising modern designs so much fun. You will be sailing at 8 knots most of the time and will see speeds over 10 regularly, particularly if you upgrade to a folding or feathering propeller. This speed enables you to cover lots of ground in short amounts of time and adds to the excitement and fun of passagemaking".

Boat Review: Beneteau Sense 55 | Cruising Compass ? The Free Weekly Newsletter for Sailors & Cruisers ? 2013 Blue Water Sailing
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:13   #194
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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Here is what Bluewater sailing magazine said about that when they tested the Sense 55:

"The new Oceanis 55, with a very modern hull and powerful rig, is a lot of fun to sail and is both fast and very sea kindly. You certainly could sail the boat anywhere and will do so in comfort and style....

It is hard not to like a boat that sails comfortably upwind in 28 knots apparent wind without getting you wet or knocking out a filling. It is even harder not to like a boat that reaches off in a breeze in steady double digit speeds. The Oceanis 55 is a fine sailboat, first and foremost."

It happens Sense 55 and Oceanis 55 are different boats. Even different ranges. Designed for different markets, use and so on...
And (quite) big tankage means just comfort for Sense users.

Cheers
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:30   #195
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Re: Beneteau Sense Quality Issues

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I just suppose that the Sense owners, as "targeted" by Beneteau are of the kind to be found in best shelter around in any worse that fine weather.

I think you'll find the Sense will quite happily take you around the world. We've move on a bit from the WetSnail era ( the flames will start now lol

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