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Old 06-01-2017, 11:42   #91
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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Originally Posted by Polux
There is some confusing here...from the boats you posted the one below is just an outdated design with outdated performances
Yeah clearly since you didn't understand the context of outdated.

Edit.
When it comes to the Pacific Seacraft it actually has good performance.

Edit2
I already have a bluewater sailboat that I'm happy with, a Super Maramu. She may not win any races but she was not designed with racing in mind.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:11   #92
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
Yeah clearly since you didn't understand the context of outdated.

Edit.
When it comes to the Pacific Seacraft it actually has good performance.

Edit2
I already have a bluewater sailboat that I'm happy with, a Super Maramu. She may not win any races but she was not designed with racing in mind.

I, too, have a bluewater boat - designed by Sparkman & Stephens - and I regularly beat the pants off of Jeanneau DS boats in everything but light air and DDW when Beercan racing. Some of that is boat design, and some (a lot) is that I am a more competent sailor. Before I owned her, my boat took top honors two years in a row at the Banderas Blast in Puerto Vallarta...and she's crossed the Atlantic three times, the Pacific twice, been to Alaska numerous times...and is now in the process of a circumnavigation.

However, cruising is not a race - so speed is of little consequence in my particular situation. My family's safety, however, is!
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:15   #93
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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There is some confusing here. Not all crusing boats are beamy, even if beam gives them a lot more stability for the same size. To compensate and have the same space and stability of a beamy boat on a narrow boat you have to have a much bigger boat and that is more expensive.

From the boats you posted the one below is just an outdated design with outdated performances, the one above is just a very slightly outdated hull design, specially in the transom but with a modern keel and ruder, a boat with a good sailing performance, but very small interior space for the size, this one:


If that is your cup of tea and that is the size you want you should look at the Luffe 3.6, a very similar boat but with a more modern hull.


These are beautiful boats and great boats to sail but boats that beside the small interior, except downwind, sail always with great angles of heel. Not a problem if you like it but not the best to prepare a meal inside

Bell-bottomed pants and shag carpet were all the rage at on time, too...just sayin'
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:20   #94
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
...
I already have a blue water sailboat that I'm happy with, a Super Maramu. She may not win any races but she was not designed with racing in mind.
Amel is another builder that understood the advantages of beamy boats in what regards cruising and sailing. Juts look at the diference between an Amel Super Maramu and a modern Amel in what regards hull design:




Not very different from the one from the Jeanneau 54:


Even if the Amel is beamier with 4.99m while the Jeanneau 54 has 4.54m. Of course the appendices are different. Amel has already updated the hull, maybe one day they will update the rudder, as Oyster and other brands have done.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:34   #95
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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Originally Posted by Raven Odyssey View Post
cruising is not a race - so speed is of little consequence in my particular situation. My family's safety, however, is!
Indeed, safety should always come first. It should override everything.


@Polux
I don't see the stern being beamy on the Super Maramu, a beamy stern would mean the boat would more easily broach, not a quality you want in a bluewater cruiser. A beamy stern is usually done to increase space in the owners cabin aft, also known as the fornicatorium.

Edit.
I'm well aware of the differences between these two boats, I own one and have checked the new one out.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:43   #96
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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I, too, have a bluewater boat - designed by Sparkman & Stephens - and I regularly beat the pants off of Jeanneau DS boats in everything but light air and DDW when Beercan racing. Some of that is boat design, and some (a lot) is that I am a more competent sailor. Before I owned her, my boat took top honors two years in a row at the Banderas Blast in Puerto Vallarta...and she's crossed the Atlantic three times, the Pacific twice, been to Alaska numerous times...and is now in the process of a circumnavigation.

However, cruising is not a race - so speed is of little consequence in my particular situation. My family's safety, however, is!
Cruising is really hard to define. When guys like Polux describe the ideal cruiser he's doing so based on his experiences sailing the Med. Having sailed the Med for a couple of years I understand where he is coming from.
Living aboard 24/7 and having to cross oceans with a boat that can carry everything you need causes one to see things in a different light. There is no perfect boat but the more money you want to spend the closer you can get to it.
Many cruisers are not great sailors, and they don't have to nor want to be so what's the use of them sailing a fast boat slow.
Really none of the modern high production boats are really all that fast once they get all loaded up so it still gets back to the sailor in many cases. I have to say that not much has changed over the years. 30 years ago there were heavy displacementoffshore boats and lighter weight racer/cruisers, not much different than today. The argument was almost the same back then. I can say the racers these days are damn quick with no comparable to years ago but the cruisers still poke along at hull speed. It's when you start looking at racer/cruisers like the Pogo and other really interesting boats that my heart starts to race but I also know by the time I load one up the way our current boat is loaded it will be too heavy to start planing in wind speeds of 15 knots so that dream goes poof. The only other option is to buy a Pogo type boat that is around 60 feet and load it up like our 42 footer and still have a very very quick boat but I'm to stingy to write the cheque so there you go. We are on the hook most of the time anyways so it doesn't make sense to spend another million plus dollars so I can gain a few knots when we are sailing. Whoever said it made any sense to chose this lifestyle to begin with?
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:50   #97
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

@robert Sailor

It's like a car in a way.

Either you chose a nervous high performance sports car or a more stable but docile grand tourer. It is difficult to find a car that can do both tasks well. Hope this analogy made sense.
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Old 06-01-2017, 13:04   #98
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

If $$$ not an issue go for Shipman 59 About Shipman 59 - Shipman

Van Der Beek, I bet this one will do both specially one with 3.00 m lifting keel...
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Old 06-01-2017, 13:16   #99
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

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Cruising is really hard to define. When guys like Polux describe the ideal cruiser he's doing so based on his experiences sailing the Med. ......
It seems I have some difficulty in making you understand what I say: Iam not describing any ideal cruiser. There is not an ideal cruiser, what is ideal varies with each sailor tastes.

I know what I want and what I like but there is some confusion here. I am only sailing on the med on the last 8 years or so. Before that I had always my boat on the Atlantic coast and then sailed much more on the Atlantic than on the med.

You keep with that irritant theory that the boats that I prefere, that are main market performance cruisers or voyage performance cruisers, are only preferred by the ones that sail on the med even if I had posted a long list of boats, that are similar to some of the boats I prefer, that are not even built on the med, but on in Germany, in Denmark and in Sweden.

If you think that most of those boats are bought by the guys that sail on the med you are very wrong. Those boats are bought principally by sailors from the North of Europe and it is on the Atlantic, on the Baltic and on North of Europe you will find them in greater number. you will find them also making the ARC in big numbers and even circumnavigating.

You have a big difficulty in accepting that other sailors have other preferences than yours!!!!! That is quite tiresome. Try to accept that all sailors are not the same and that people have different tastes and THAT THERE ARE NOT AN IDEAL CRUISING BOAT.

Here, have one of those boats cruising on the Antarctic and see if you understand that sailors have different cruising tastes. Some are just bored by slow boats are are willing to trade a lot for having an enjoyable boat to sail and it is not just me:





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Old 06-01-2017, 13:20   #100
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Beneteau oceanis 55

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Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
@robert Sailor

It's like a car in a way.

Either you chose a nervous high performance sports car or a more stable but docile grand tourer. It is difficult to find a car that can do both tasks well. Hope this analogy made sense.


Difficult, no...expensive, yes!

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Old 06-01-2017, 14:33   #101
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

Polux, don't get your sheets in a knot. I know there are hundreds of ways to skin a Cat so everyone has their own view of what works for them and isn't that great! You like boats that have a performance edge and so do I but I don't want to buy one big enough that I'd still have the performance because they are too much money. You do a great job on this site but sometimes I think you are related to our friend Donald. Cheers, R
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Old 06-01-2017, 14:34   #102
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

Wow gentlemen! All I wanted to know was had anyone sailed a Oceanis 55 with a shoal draft!

Has a post on this forum about a new plastic/office/abonamable boat ever not mentioned 'blue water' 'amel' and 'ikea'?

For a boat that is regarded as such a lame duck seems to generate a lot of interest.

Great read though.
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Old 06-01-2017, 15:56   #103
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

Some of us are very passionate about sailboats, others are into dock queens, and some are even into catamarans and trimarans, also known as glorified rafts / party barges with sails. It is what it is.

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Great read though.
You're welcome
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Old 06-01-2017, 16:43   #104
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

First, congrats to Polux for staying chill that long, with such strongly opinionated people. And yes the subject seems to always come OP.

Trying to make things more clear, I would say that one can freely appreciate a narrow market segment, such as outdated hull designs (why wouldn't a bow be more straight?) and conservative interiors, without having to justify it in "seaworthiness", "comfort" or "security", degrading other approaches at the same time. The biggest part of the market are not as stupid as some suggested they buy what they need and like and have the money for, every boat is a compromise and the kind of safety most production boats bring is sufficient enough for anyone not planning to go RTW via northern passage w/o any weather forecasts. (Little hyperbola there)
And Oysters are not hyper-expensive only because of their insane quality but also because they are being built in an inefficient, non industrialised manner to get the marginal advantage which makes their selling argument.
Imho a fantastic example of comfort, seaworthiness and performance, for less than 4M$ would've CNB semi custom yachts, modern in every possible way. (Not Solaris 50 design modern but still)

Finally great luck to you OP in your search decisions look tough, all models of your list look great, glad I'm not rich enough to have to make them :P
Btw only Sense 57, no 51 announced at LBS2017
Cheers :-)
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Old 06-01-2017, 18:54   #105
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Re: Beneteau oceanis 55

I think it is great that we all have differences of taste and preference. Otherwise this world would be pretty boring right? Whats not very cool if we get upset that others tastes are different then ours. What I appreciate about looking at what other people like, it gives me ideas to change the way I see things as well.
I have enjoyed reading this thread (for the most part Because I am also shopping for a larger, roomier boat for chartering and something that my wife can call home.
Right now our Mariner 40 is a very traditional boat that can be very uncomfortable to live in, let alone try and entertain people. Yes we have had up to 15 people on board but was a challenge for them all to take a seat haha.
And those of you that think older all wooden classic designs are better offshore than the new boats, well...... lets just say, sailing my 1967 Mariner 40 though a 7 day gale in the middle of the ocean was challenging to say the least. No self tailing winches, leaking deck hatches, awkward seating in the helm, Cockpit is like a toilet bowl, all water from the bow to the stern is designed to flow into the cockpit, thus drowning anything that is there every time I took a wave over the deck, or even just the spray of a wave.
Not to mention all the screws that pulled out of the wood, old bronze fittings breaking, including the deck pad eye for the mizzen sheet, goose-neck of the main boom and the boom Vang that ripped off the boom amungst other things.
Keep in mind, this is after I spent $40k and 6 months full time setting the boat up for offshore sailing with the help of others that have had the experience.

So with that said, I like new technology and features that make sailing safer and easier so that I can have more fun, not hanging on for dear life attaching a boom back to the boat during a gale hahaha. Although I am quite proud of my little boat, it took several beatings and it kept going
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