Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-11-2010, 10:53   #1
Registered User
 
Capt.Don's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Altadena, CA
Boat: Tartan 3500
Posts: 611
Images: 1
Beneteau Family Tree

I am starting to reconsider my thoughts on purchasing a 37' to 40' Beneteau. There is so much conflicting information regarding production, coastal, offshore, bluewater boats that it is hard to comprehend whether the Beneteau's are a capable and quality boat. Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers.... Though, my feeling is that Beneteau has nailed the price, value, features vs. performance in production boats.

I'm trying to understand the Beneteau product lines or models over the years and whether one model, year, size stands out from the rest. From what I can tell there are: First, Oceanis, and numbered series. What are the differences, especially with older boats (mid 80's to current)? Are they the same hull, construction, with First having more racing/performance gear, mumbered series with cruising accomodiations? Oceanis??? For each, are there particular model years that have proven to be better designed and built? Are there models to avoid entirely.

Thanks,
Don
__________________

__________________
Capt.Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 11:30   #2
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,842
MarkJ has almost completed a circumnavigation in an Oceanis 393 Our Life At Sea - Sailing Yacht 'Sea Life' and his boat does not have in mast furling.
__________________

__________________
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 11:45   #3
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers....
Being that biaised from the start , why bother.

Firstly as to Peeling veeners, I ve had two Benes, for many years from new, never experienced this veneer problem, as to European veneers, sorry "teak" etc....

As to rigging you can have any type you want, as to under sized standing rigging complete BS.

Listen theres no point including boats you have dismissed already.

The fact is Beneteaus will take you wherever you want to go, if you are a good enough sailer of course....

Millions have been built over the years, most are still in use and used in som eof the most difficult coastal and oceans in the world. bluewater debates are just bumfluff debates, completely irrelevant.


Dave
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 13:21   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
I’m not a Banned expert, admirer, nor detractor. Personally, I’m not overly fond of them.

As I understand the general concept:

The FIRST series are racer/cruiser sailboats, with a higher emphasis on the racing aspects.

The NUMBERED and OCEANIS series are more traditional cruising boats, and handicap (PHRF) club racers.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 13:59   #5
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
I never was very fond of their construction practices but then there is virtually no difference in price, design, construction or quality between any of the major production boat companies. As a result, people choose a particular mfg more because of marketing and advertising than any substantive reason.

Consequently, you have seen lots of conflicting opinions and will no doubt get responses fairly divided on the pros/cons of any manufacturer or their "tweeks" between models.

If you really need a bluewater boat, why get one that needs extensive modification to barely qualify?
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 14:12   #6
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
I am starting to reconsider my thoughts on purchasing a 37' to 40' Beneteau. There is so much conflicting information regarding production, coastal, offshore, bluewater boats that it is hard to comprehend whether the Beneteau's are a capable and quality boat. Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers.... Though, my feeling is that Beneteau has nailed the price, value, features vs. performance in production boats.

I'm trying to understand the Beneteau product lines or models over the years and whether one model, year, size stands out from the rest. From what I can tell there are: First, Oceanis, and numbered series. What are the differences, especially with older boats (mid 80's to current)? Are they the same hull, construction, with First having more racing/performance gear, mumbered series with cruising accomodiations? Oceanis??? For each, are there particular model years that have proven to be better designed and built? Are there models to avoid entirely.

Thanks,
Don
I've chartered two Beneteau Oceanis yachts from the early to middle 2000's. They are good boats. They are not fitted out to luxurious standards but -- so what? In exchange for that, you save a ton of money. What you also get is sparkling sailing performance, notwithstanding the iron keels. Neither yacht we chartered had in-mast furling. The rig is somewhat underspecced compared to more expensive, but I've never heard of anyone having any problems with Bene rigs.

I paid much more in order to have a more beautiful boat, but I happened to have the money. If I had been on a stricter budget, I would not have hesitated to buy a Bene.

Of all the different qualities which are important in a yacht -- and every yacht is a big compromise -- surely sailing qualities are by far the most important. If I were on a budget and were offered a boat which had a few cheapie compromises in the fitout but sailed like stink for half the price of a so-called "proper" boat -- I would not hesitate!
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 14:47   #7
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
As a result, people choose a particular mfg more because of marketing and advertising than any substantive reason.
Thats a very cynical perspective. I know the Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, Dufour,Gibsea,etc ranges very well, I ve been on most of the current ranges at various boatshows and Ive sailed quite a number. There are significant differences between the ranges and manufacturers.

For example I would rate in terms of build Jeanneau, Beneteau, Dufour, Bavaria. Beneteau for example has stayed away from saildrives which I personally dont like, Jeanneau has been a fan of traditional galleys etc.Beneteau has better Nav station layouts etc, There is a lot of difference and its not based on marketing.


The fact is that if you compare alomost all production boats right from Oyster , via Halberg rassy dow to Hunters. There is way more in common then difference. but the difference are quite significant when you look at them

People mix up price points/value and expectation all the time.

Dave
__________________
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 15:07   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: deboated
Posts: 672
"The fact is Beneteaus will take you wherever you want to go, if you are a good enough sailer of course....

Millions have been built over the years, most are still in use and used in som eof the most difficult coastal and oceans in the world. bluewater debates are just bumfluff debates, completely irrelevant."

This about sums it up but a few points, if the rig is not optimum size would this mean that for cruising purposes it is more suiteable as far as understress easier to handle speed not being number one concern.
The number one problem as far as I am concerned is storage particularly fuel tank size but again this can be a + if $ are concened as you are less inclined to fire the engine up at every opportunity so less money spent on fuel and you might even sail the sailboat unlike many I see that seem to be always motoring. While I have read many times that you need to spend a great deal of money to make these type of boats cruise ready and so why not buy a more suiteable boat (expensive) what gets left out is the fact that the more expensive boat still comes without many of the cruising needs. So you then need to upgrade it as well, the cheaper boat fitted out with just what YOU want on it will work out cheaper in the long run.
__________________
meyermm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 15:13   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
I'm "PRO" Beneteau, but I also own one.. We've traveled thousands of miles in ours over the last 7 years, and still, the idea of selling her gets to me at times.. But then again, ours is a FIRST 42 and an owners version and somewhat outside the norm for the Production Beneteau..
I dont quite understand your concern about an Iron Keel.. Ours is Iron, about 10 thousands pounds worth.. seven years ago we sealed it with a two part epoxy barrior coat and applied bottom paint.. pulled the boat last year and except for a couple scrapes where we've run aground, not a problem with it at all..
The rigging can be set up anyway you want it and ours is Cutter Rigged with an additional baby stay.. and its some pretty beefy stuff, both standing and running..
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 15:35   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by meyermm View Post
if $ are concened as you are less inclined to fire the engine up at every opportunity so less money spent on fuel and you might even sail the sailboat unlike many I see that seem to be always motoring.
Two items I'd like to address..
First, We just returned recently from a couple months out exploring the southern California Coast and the Islands there. From San Francisco, we had a total of maybe10 days where we could sail over 2 months.. The wind would pick up in the afternoon and die by 5 or 6 in the evening.. so It was a plus to have a motor and a boat that will motor at 6 to 7 knots..
And Second, I constantly hear people making the statement that speed is not a concern when they are in cruising mode.. You mostly hear this from those that have never been out cruising but heres an example...
Comming back to San Francisco from Southern California is a "BASH" into the north-west waves and wind..EXCEPT, every now and then, a southerly starts to blow and everything switches...But they dont often blow for long.. we had a 3 day window to ride the southerly back to San Francisco.. We did that 3 day window with over 200 per day with winds not much over 15 knots from San Diego to San Francisco..
The speed we were able to take advantage of gave us a better trip overall..
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 15:50   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: deboated
Posts: 672
Ten days in two months is not the norm in most parts of the world as in the globe.
__________________
meyermm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 16:36   #12
Registered User
 
Capt.Don's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Altadena, CA
Boat: Tartan 3500
Posts: 611
Images: 1
Randyonr3,

Regarding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
I dont quite understand your concern about an Iron Keel..
The concensus is that an iron keel transmists groundings to the hull potentially causing more damage than the same impact to a lead keel. Lead is softer and potentially absorbs the forces of the impact.

Don
__________________
Capt.Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 16:48   #13
Registered User
 
Reality Check's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Indies, Now live aboard as cruiser/ voyager often with guest/ friends
Boat: 36' Bene
Posts: 585
Send a message via ICQ to Reality Check
Good Grief Charlie Brown!!!
__________________
I prefer a sailboat to a motorboat, and it is my belief that boat sailing is a finer, more difficult, and sturdier art than running a motor.
--- Jack London
Reality Check is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 16:53   #14
Registered User
 
Capt.Don's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Altadena, CA
Boat: Tartan 3500
Posts: 611
Images: 1
I appreciate the opinions expressed. It wasn't my intent to start another debate on the pros/cons of Beneteaus. The question I keep coming back to is deciphering the differences between First, Oceanis, and numbered boats and which model, year,... For example, searching yachtworld for a 37' Beneteau, there are: Beneteau 37 (2008-2011), Beneteau 373 (~2003-2008), First 36.7 (~2002-2003), First 375 (~1985-1986), Oceanis 37 (2008-2009), Oceanis 370 (~1990-1993)....

I do understand the First series is aimed for more performance sailing and racing. From what I can tell, these tend to have larger/performance rigging, larger sails, larger winches, less accomodiations below, less tankage... What is not clear is whether for the same size/year are the hulls the same/different, same/different keels, larger mast/sails and so on. I'm assuming the Oceanis line is rebranding the cruising series; likewise for Jeanneau, Dufor....

Beneteau's brand dilution (similar to GM) is enough reason to avoid them all-together.
__________________
Capt.Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2010, 17:34   #15
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
Beneteau's brand dilution (similar to GM) is enough reason to avoid them all-together.
Brand dilution only matters to companies trying to maintain a high margin due to brand. In other words, the sailboat that's only marginally better than another and yet costs three times as much.

Beneteau makes its money with much lower margins, much higher value for the money spent. Its customer base is going to be comprised of those more interested in value than status.

Are you buying a boat or a brand? Digital cruisers here on CF seem far more impressed with brand than real cruisers out there on the water.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I Pulled Up a Tree sabray The Sailor's Confessional 7 21-07-2010 13:46
For Sale: Shade Tree Awnings for Sale nukahiva Classifieds Archive 0 09-06-2010 05:03
Shade Tree Awnings bottleinamessage Classifieds Archive 2 04-03-2008 11:44
Permit required to climb a tree??? Lightfin Europe & Mediterranean 14 11-01-2007 15:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.