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Old 30-11-2010, 08:51   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
One never really owns a boat--'tho' for awhile it may own you. We are all just custodians for awhile, some better than others.
Oh, you are so right, svHyLyte.

In fact, it breaks my heart every time I go out looking at boats and meet owners who have tears in their eyes. In fact, I say unto them:

"SaltyMonkey feels your pain. This is a sensitive moment for all of you. But we must remember, we are all merely human...and the sea is a mysterious place for our frailties. We are seriously seduced by it's beauty and thankful for that better life , but remember we are also of the land...and being on sea surrounded by poisonous water might be a desert for us in the long term. So, you are strong. Sometimes we must leave if only for a while..to not be seduced by that fatal attraction which may ultimately doom us............

and that is why I will only give you 50% of your asking offer"

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Old 30-11-2010, 09:02   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Once aboard it felt like a plastic model airplane including the cheap windows.
I hate the cheap windows (and hatches) on Benes, too. Our old boat had beautiful cast stainless steel ports with tempered glass in them, and robust hand-screws to dog them down. The Benes have these nasty plastic ports with nasty plastic tabs (ick) to snap them down. The glazing itself is plastic and is already starting to get matte and scratched before the boat is even delivered.

Imagine my dismay when I start shopping for Oysters and found out that Oysters use the same ports as Benes do! And my Moody, same thing! Ick!

I have gotten used to them.
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:05   #123
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Dockhead. You could replace them? Bit of work, but maybe worth the effort?
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:09   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Dockhead. You could replace them? Bit of work, but maybe worth the effort?
Yes, I would like that. I miss the quality shipshape ports from the Pearson.

But my list of improvements is so long and involves so much money, that I doubt that something purely aesthetic like that will come up on the "do now" part of the list for some time.

"Purely aesthetic" because as crappy as they look and feel to the touch, they are 100% watertight -- not a leak on the boat (my first such experience with sailboats).

Oysters use exactly the same ports! Amazing.

They're from Lewmar: http://www.lewmar.com/product-listin...search&type=57
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Old 30-11-2010, 09:37   #125
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Any reason not to include the Oceanus 50? Plenty of tankage and a joy to sail. A good survey should spot any issues from the chartering years, right? (I was particularly interested in knowing if there were any crashes into pilings while docking.)

They are LISTED for $150K to $200K, for a 1998 to 2001. That's an incredible saving from the price of a new one. And that can be with a Doyle Stack Pack, hefty Lofrans windless, bimini, dodger, redundent alternators, and redundent water pumps.

(Tankage-wise, there's 1000 liters of water and 500 liters of fuel.)

Take a look: 1998-2001 Beneteau Boats For Sale

One of them is a 2001 in Florida for $159K. The add says it has the same hull as the "First 53f5".

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Old 30-11-2010, 09:51   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post

The only issue with the 42 (sorry Randy) is that the machine spaces are tight so repair work can be a real trial if not a flat PITA. More modern boats have more "room" but at sea that can prove a disadvantage.

FWIW...
such a true statement,
and you always have to weigh out the pros and con of a boat to see if its the one for you.. when the pros out number the cons, you're on the right track..
I replaced the starter on our motor.. not a nice thing to do.. Everything on the boat is pain, but its a boat...
BUT on the other side, after the ordeal with changing the starter motor, took her out for a sail.. She filled her sails and laid over at about 10 to 12 degrees and started to strut her stuff..
When she sails like that, the little pains it takes to keep her fit are no problem..
Concerning the FIRST 38 and others of that era.. we looked for 6 years for a first 38, for one that hadnt been rode hard and put away wet, and never found it.. You have to understand, the Beneteau First of the 80s was concidered a High Performance Racing Yacht and were purchased for that reason.. The First 42 for some reason found its way not only into the racing market but into the charter market and many 42 on the east coast have never seen a race but are still in Charter.
We were lucky when we found ours as its an owners version and not only had never been raced, it had never been sailed befor we bought it..
But like I said, it took 6 years to find it, and believe me, I looked at hundreds of them...
Odd thing is, when we did find this one and had researched the boat and its history, we bought it SIGHT UNSEEN, without a survey, over the phone.........
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Old 30-11-2010, 14:55   #127
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Randy, I read something here...you bring up a very interesting point that I wasn't consciously aware: finding a "top" model doesn't mean they are readily available, affordable, or in good condition...and it may be best to compromise and look for something that isn't a "lister" else you will spend 8-10 years looking instead of being on the water. That doesn't mean you are buying bottom quality, just not the main recommended censuses.

bene505 - no reason the 50 is not on the list. That higher side of 40 is a mystery to me.

Are we including Beneteau 50, Moorings 500, Oceanis 500, First 50?
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Old 30-11-2010, 16:32   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
I am starting to reconsider my thoughts on purchasing a 37' to 40' Beneteau. There is so much conflicting information regarding production, coastal, offshore, bluewater boats that it is hard to comprehend whether the Beneteau's are a capable and quality boat. Opinions vary and I originally dismissed them entirely due to fit and finish details (e.g. peeling veneers, missing cotter pins...). There are definitely things about them that I do not like: iron keel, in-mast furling, undersized standing rigging & running gear, european veneers.... Though, my feeling is that Beneteau has nailed the price, value, features vs. performance in production boats.

I'm trying to understand the Beneteau product lines or models over the years and whether one model, year, size stands out from the rest. From what I can tell there are: First, Oceanis, and numbered series. What are the differences, especially with older boats (mid 80's to current)? Are they the same hull, construction, with First having more racing/performance gear, mumbered series with cruising accomodiations? Oceanis??? For each, are there particular model years that have proven to be better designed and built? Are there models to avoid entirely.

Thanks,
Don

To the OP, going to the Beneteau website will give you layouts, owner's manuals, specs, and equipment lists of most (if not all) new and previous year Beneteaus. Hopefully the link below will take you there, if not, just go to Beneteauusa.com, then sailboats, and then previous models listing. It isn't rocket science, Beneteau built of successes of older models and incorporated new ideas and innovations when it looked like there was a market for them. A quick look, for example, shows a lot of similarities between the Oceanis 411 and the Beneteau 393, even though the 393 is touted as a samller version of the 473.

Previous Models: Oceanis 390


Frank
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Old 30-11-2010, 19:20   #129
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This leaves me with an idea to plot the lineage from the site using some network software modeling applications I have...which will show nodes and interconnections of all the model ranges and their parents / relatives
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Old 30-11-2010, 20:00   #130
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Some time ago a poster on a different subject noted that Americans as against European had a love of old style boats and constantly bagged modern production boats. Having read most of the posts here it seems nothing much has changed as most of the Bennes thrown up here are the older ones which does make you think that age seems to have more relevance with our US boating friends than the boats themselves.
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Old 30-11-2010, 20:14   #131
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Old 30-11-2010, 20:29   #132
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Its easy, if you can't stick a monitor windvane on its tail easy, and use an oil lamp freely not feeling out of style, it ain't a boat, its a fashion statement.
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Old 30-11-2010, 23:05   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Don View Post
I appreciate the opinions expressed. It wasn't my intent to start another debate on the pros/cons of Beneteaus. The question I keep coming back to is deciphering the differences between First, Oceanis, and numbered boats and which model, year,... For example, searching yachtworld for a 37' Beneteau, there are: Beneteau 37 (2008-2011), Beneteau 373 (~2003-2008), First 36.7 (~2002-2003), First 375 (~1985-1986), Oceanis 37 (2008-2009), Oceanis 370 (~1990-1993)....

I do understand the First series is aimed for more performance sailing and racing. From what I can tell, these tend to have larger/performance rigging, larger sails, larger winches, less accomodiations below, less tankage... What is not clear is whether for the same size/year are the hulls the same/different, same/different keels, larger mast/sails and so on. I'm assuming the Oceanis line is rebranding the cruising series; likewise for Jeanneau, Dufor....

Beneteau's brand dilution (similar to GM) is enough reason to avoid them all-together.
Its hard to keep people on point. Hahaha , I hope you get your answer.
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Old 30-11-2010, 23:07   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Oh, you are so right, svHyLyte.

In fact, it breaks my heart every time I go out looking at boats and meet owners who have tears in their eyes. In fact, I say unto them:

"SaltyMonkey feels your pain. This is a sensitive moment for all of you. But we must remember, we are all merely human...and the sea is a mysterious place for our frailties. We are seriously seduced by it's beauty and thankful for that better life , but remember we are also of the land...and being on sea surrounded by poisonous water might be a desert for us in the long term. So, you are strong. Sometimes we must leave if only for a while..to not be seduced by that fatal attraction which may ultimately doom us............

and that is why I will only give you 50% of your asking offer"


hahaha
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Old 23-12-2010, 10:22   #135
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My research continues. Below is a summary of the various Beneteau models from 1984 to 2009 summarized from Nada boat pricing guides, http://www.nada.com/Boat. Standard disclaimers apply - I have not verified the integrity of the data; however, I have checked the mid/late 80's Firsts and I am using as a guide when browsing yachtworld. Beneteau sure made a lot of different models (e.g., 155)!

BENETEAU 25/RA - 25' 1997 1998
BENETEAU 31/CU - 31' 2008 2009
BENETEAU 311/CU - 31' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 311/CU - 32' 1999 2004
BENETEAU 323/CU - 31' 2004 2008
BENETEAU 331/CU - 33' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 331/CU - 34' 2000 2004
BENETEAU 34/CU - 33' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 343/CU - 34' 2005 2008
BENETEAU 343/CU - 35' 2006 2006
BENETEAU 361 2 CABIN/CU - 35' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 361 3 CABIN/CU - 35' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 361/CU - 36' 2000 2004
BENETEAU 37/CU - 36' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 37/CU - 37' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 373/CU - 36' 2004 2008
BENETEAU 393 2 CABIN/CU - 38' 2003 2007
BENETEAU 393 3 CABIN/CU - 38' 2003 2007
BENETEAU 393/CU - 38' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 40 2 CABIN/CU - 39' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 40 3 CABIN/CU - 39' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 40 3 CABIN/CU - 40' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 40/CU - 39' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 411 2 CABIN/CU - 41' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 411 3 CABIN/CU - 41' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 411/CU - 42' 1997 2000
BENETEAU 423 2 CABIN/CU - 42' 2003 2007
BENETEAU 423 3 CABIN/CU - 42' 2003 2007
BENETEAU 423/CU - 42' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 42CC/CU - 42' 2003 2006
BENETEAU 43 2 CABIN/CU - 42' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 43 3 CABIN/CU - 42' 2008 2009
BENETEAU 43/CU - 42' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 46 2 CABIN/CU - 45' 2008 2008
BENETEAU 46 3 CABIN/CU - 45' 2008 2009
BENETEAU 46/CU - 45' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 473 2 CABIN/CU - 46' 2003 2006
BENETEAU 473 3 CABIN/CU - 46' 2003 2006
BENETEAU 49 2 CABIN/CU - 48' 2007 2008
BENETEAU 49 3 CABIN/CU - 48' 2007 2009
BENETEAU 49/CU - 48' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 50 2 CABIN/CU - 49' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 50 2 CABIN/CU - 51' 2004 2004
BENETEAU 50 3 CABIN/CU - 49' 2003 2003
BENETEAU 50 3 CABIN/CU - 51' 2004 2004
BENETEAU 50/CU - 51' 1996 2000
BENETEAU 523/CU - 52' 2005 2008
BENETEAU 523/CU - 53' 2006 2007
BENETEAU 53F5/CU - 53' 1996 1996
BENETEAU 54 BOW CABIN/CU - 53' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 54/CU - 53' 2009 2009
BENETEAU 57/CU - 56' 2004 2009
BENETEAU 62/CU - 62' 1996 1996
BENETEAU SWIFT TRAWLER 42 - 44' 2009 2009
BENETEAU SWIFT TRAWLER 52 - 50' 2009 2009
EVASION 36/MS - 35' 1992 1992
FIRST 10R RA/CU - 33' 2007 2008
FIRST 10R/RA - 33' 2009 2009
FIRST 21 CLASSIC RA/CU - 21' 1995 1995
FIRST 21.0 CLASSIC/RA - 21' 1996 1996
FIRST 21.0 RA/CU - 21' 1995 1995
FIRST 21.0/RA - 21' 1996 1996
FIRST 210 RA/CU - 21' 1994 1994
FIRST 210/RA - 21' 1993 1993
FIRST 235/RA - 23' 1987 1992
FIRST 24 - 24' 1984 1984
FIRST 24/RA - 24' 1985 1986
FIRST 26/RA - 26' 1985 1986
FIRST 26/SL - 26' 1984 1984
FIRST 265 RA/CU - 26' 1992 1995
FIRST 285 RA/CU - 28' 1987 1992
FIRST 29 RA/CU - 29' 1984 1986
FIRST 305 RA/CU - 30' 1984 1988
FIRST 310 RA/CU - 31' 1991 1995
FIRST 310/RA - 31' 1994 1995
FIRST 32.5 RA/CU - 32' 1989 1991
FIRST 325 RA/CU - 32' 1984 1986
FIRST 33.7 RA/CU - 33' 1997 2000
FIRST 345 RA/CU - 34' 1984 1988
FIRST 35.5 RA/CU - 35' 1988 1993
FIRST 35.7 RA/CU - 35' 1994 1995
FIRST 36.7 RA/CU - 35' 2003 2008
FIRST 36.7/RA - 35' 2009 2009
FIRST 36S7 RA/CU - 36' 1996 1998
FIRST 375 RA/CU - 37' 1985 1987
FIRST 38 RA/CU - 40' 1984 1984
FIRST 38.5 RA/CU - 38' 1990 1994
FIRST 40 DEEP KEEL/RA - 40' 2009 2009
FIRST 40.7 RA/CU - 39' 1999 2008
FIRST 40/RA - 40' 2009 2009
FIRST 405 RA/CU - 40' 1985 1990
FIRST 41.5 RA/CU - 41' 1990 1994
FIRST 42 RA/CU - 42' 1984 1989
FIRST 42.7 RA/CU - 42' 1995 1995
FIRST 42S7 RA/CU - 43' 1996 1998
FIRST 435 RA/CU - 43' 1984 1987
FIRST 44.7 RA/CU - 44' 2004 2007
FIRST 45 DEEP KEEL/RA - 45' 2009 2009
FIRST 45 RA/CU - 45' 2008 2008
FIRST 45.5 RA/CU - 45' 1990 1995
FIRST 45/RA - 45' 2009 2009
FIRST 456 RA/CU - 45' 1986 1986
FIRST 456 RA/CU - 46' 1985 1985
FIRST 45F5 RA/CU - 46' 1996 1996
FIRST 47.7 RA/CU - 48' 2000 2005
FIRST 50 DEEP KEEL/RA - 49' 2009 2009
FIRST 50 RA/CU - 49' 2007 2008
FIRST 50/RA - 49' 2009 2009
FIRST 51 RA/CU - 51' 1989 1990
FIRST 53.5 RA/CU - 53' 1992 1995
FIRST CLASS 10/SL - 34' 1984 1987
FIRST CLASS 12/SL - 40' 1989 1989
FIRST CLASS 8/SL - 26' 1987 1987
FIRST CLASS/SL - 26' 1985 1986
IDYLLE 1050/SL - 34' 1985 1987
IDYLLE 11.50/SL - 37' 1987 1987
IDYLLE 1150/SL - 38' 1984 1984
IDYLLE 13.50/SL - 43' 1987 1987
OCEANIS 281/CU - 28' 1995 1996
OCEANIS 281/CU - 29' 1997 1998
OCEANIS 300/CU - 31' 1994 1995
OCEANIS 321/CU - 32' 1995 1995
OCEANIS 321/CU - 33' 1996 2000
OCEANIS 350/CU - 34' 1986 1992
OCEANIS 350/CU - 35' 1993 1993
OCEANIS 351/CU - 35' 1994 1996
OCEANIS 352/CU - 35' 1997 1998
OCEANIS 36CC/CU - 35' 2003 2003
OCEANIS 36CC/CU - 36' 1997 2000
OCEANIS 370/CU - 35' 1992 1992
OCEANIS 370/CU - 36' 1991 1991
OCEANIS 370/CU - 37' 1993 1994
OCEANIS 381/CU - 39' 1997 2000
OCEANIS 390 1 AFT CAB/CU - 38' 1991 1991
OCEANIS 390 1AFT CAB/CU - 39' 1990 1990
OCEANIS 390 2 AFT CAB/CU - 38' 1991 1991
OCEANIS 390 2AFT CAB/CU - 39' 1990 1990
OCEANIS 390/CU - 38' 1992 1992
OCEANIS 390/CU - 39' 1987 1993
OCEANIS 400/CU - 40' 1993 1996
OCEANIS 40CC/CU - 40' 1995 1995
OCEANIS 40CC/CU - 41' 1997 2000
OCEANIS 430/CU - 43' 1986 1991
OCEANIS 440 1 AFT CAB/CU - 44' 1994 1994
OCEANIS 440 2 AFT CAB/CU - 44' 1994 1994
OCEANIS 440/CU - 44' 1992 1995
OCEANIS 440/CU - 45' 1996 1996
OCEANIS 44CC/CU - 44' 1995 1995
OCEANIS 44CC/CU - 45' 1996 2000
OCEANIS 461/CU - 47' 1997 2000
OCEANIS 500 PRESTIGE/CL - 50' 1991 1991
OCEANIS 500/CU - 50' 1988 1990
OCEANIS 510/CU - 50' 1992 1992
OCEANIS 510/CU - 51' 1993 1995
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