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Old 25-12-2010, 20:22   #151
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Mark,
First of all, welcome back and thank you for your comments. What I find particularly helpful is the actual boat and sailing accomplishments of the folks that are commenting on this discussion. I've looked at a lot of boats in the 38'-40' range and I keep coming back to Beneteau as a capable manufacturer and having boat model/years that meets my sense of design, quality and overall sailing requirements. My original delimena is how to sort through the different models and years to find the perfect boat.

I started my evaluation with mid 80's primarily based on budget considerations. For $50-70K, 38'-40' mid 80's Firsts can be found (not many, though). I may have casually dismissed the Beneteau or Oceanis models based on my racing background and not being able to make sense the numerous models. What I'm finding is that my family would prefer a newer and more cruising oriented boat, with aft cabin, larger tankage, more storage..... I'm trying to balance my wants with the more practical reality! This is now moving our search into the mid/late 90's and early 00's, and expands our choices. For overall design, quality and family comfort, this might be where we find the right boat. Mid/late 00's are out of our budget.

Short of looking at every model/year Beneteau manufactured, are there any known bad Beneteau's (model/year) out there that I can cross off the list? Otherwise, I'm off to look at every Beneteau I can find in the 38'-40' range!

I appreciate everyone's comments,
Don
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Old 25-12-2010, 20:32   #152
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MarkJ, theres nothing funny here at the root of my comments, unless you want to read something from my spicy saucy troll fun.

Honestly, I wanted an open mind about this when I stepped aboard one at the show. I went on the newer 35 FIRST to have a first hand view because online it looked like a great boat - cockpit, cabin, etc - more so than a Beneteau series cruiser; and also wanted to see for myself all that (BS) you are talking about - "each year is a quantum leap forward". "So, lets have a look at the newer 35 and compare" I said to myself. "Lets see how its improved". OK, at first I thought it would make a great great "racer cruiser" - and I do have a sinful heart for FAST. But, the construction WAS depressing. Terribly depressing. And as I said I wasn't the only one on the boat who also had the same perspective. I was expecting at least something tangible by the specs online and the fancy 360 views. The big wheel, which I thought would be great for port/starboard control and visibility, turned out to be too big. Unlike say, a dual station, there is no room to pass comfortably. Even in a racing situation you need to be able to move about quickly - alone or with crew - a nice large un-impeding cockpit and station. They should have left a bit for a passage. And for the Ikea cabin - yes, stripping it out completely would not only make the boat faster, but also make it more livable if you want a true racers perspective. Anything is better than a press board feel.

Cannot say for certain the 30 or 10R of this year is better or worse.
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Old 25-12-2010, 20:42   #153
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Oh BTW I forgot to say - welcome back Mark. Good to see you made it AOK. Congrats on the circumnav.

BTW, not to be insultive or devalue your wondrous accomplishment but a few humble and naive questions from a monkey much more less experienced than you - about that last bit of Atlantic bad luck:

- That was quite a lot of thinking you had to perform on the broken rigging once it was discovered. Please tell...in all your miles on the journey OTW, and the free time you had for preparing for the possibility of this kind of inevitably common issue, are you saying you had to actually spend precious cycles thinking about what to do next?

- Before you left, did you check your rigging, or did you engage someone else to have to inspect and do this work for you?

- When was the last time the stays and shrouds of your rigging were replaced? 10 years? Do you know?

Humble SaltyMonkey would like to know.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 26-12-2010, 05:59   #154
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Salty and Don,

You MUST understand that 35 foot race boats are VER LIGHTLY BUILT.


PLEASE understand this!

Please download for me the speccs of a 35 foot first and a 35 foot oceanis.

Then download the Options lists for both.

PLEASE then realise that the modern 35 foot race boat is built like the racing skiffs kids used before Optimists became ubiquitios.

They are NOT designed for family cruising. They are designed for family/club RACING.

And not long offshore ARC type 'racing'.

My boat is ex-charter and 10 years old. Insurance companies often won't insure unless the standing rigging has been renewed after 10 years. So 10 years of charterers and a circumnavigation I think the rig has conformed to Insurance company standards.

Even if you own a Swan they will want to rigging dumped after a decade of hard use.

Quote:
That was quite a lot of thinking you had to perform on the broken rigging once it was discovered. Please tell...in all your miles on the journey OTW, and the free time you had for preparing for the possibility of this kind of inevitably common issue, are you saying you had to actually spend precious cycles thinking about what to do next?
Maybe you sail without thinking.






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Old 26-12-2010, 08:43   #155
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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Honestly, I wanted an open mind about this when I stepped aboard one at the show. I went on the newer 35 FIRST to have a first hand view because online it looked like a great boat - cockpit, cabin, etc - more so than a Beneteau series cruiser; and also wanted to see for myself all that (BS) you are talking about - "each year is a quantum leap forward". "So, lets have a look at the newer 35 and compare" I said to myself. "Lets see how its improved". OK, at first I thought it would make a great great "racer cruiser" - and I do have a sinful heart for FAST. But, the construction WAS depressing. Terribly depressing. .......
Its a competive racer cruiser, whats to find depressing, its a strong but light hull with a very lightly built interior. its certianly not a cruising boat. so why bother with the first series at all. Ive said it numerous times, Firsts are not the best choice for cruising boats.

Dave
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Old 26-12-2010, 09:00   #156
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Salty... if you want FAST.... forget these things that are only 1 or 2 knots faster than the next boat....
Go for a REAL FAST BOAT...... 5 to 10 knots faster...... live a little..


Your not talking fast mate just lighter... strip out an Oceanis and she'll equal a First of the same size...
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Old 26-12-2010, 09:32   #157
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Salty... if you want FAST...
You want fast: fly.
Remember, nothing goes to weather like a 747.
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Old 26-12-2010, 09:48   #158
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Boatman yu r brain F&#@$(& with me! YES a Wharram is on my TODO bucket list! But so is a cat ketch, an ovni, and a fisher. Think it comes down to I need a boat with character. But I'll take anything if its free - even if it has broken riggin!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Its a competive racer cruiser, whats to find depressing, its a strong but light hull with a very lightly built interior. its certianly not a cruising boat. so why bother with the first series at all. Ive said it numerous times, Firsts are not the best choice for cruising boats.
Dave
Because, again, 35 under consideration - looking for a "racer/cruiser" and it was a "Best Boat of the Year" etc. If boatman says is true, just lighter - Bennie just went a step too far in the interior light. If what mark says is true...then I think they they have digressed greatly in structural integrity since the 80's version of the 35. Sad again, for the interior layout and size (35) was seductive on first glance. I liked it better than the Beneteau series (which doesn't have a separate nav station for example) Also I like racers - besides fast they have open cockpits which makes it easier to move about without tripping from lack of sleep.

BTW thinking about that wheel again - it can be replaced with a sightly smaller one.

On the Bennie series size, the 31 is not so bad except for the &@&#$ nav station, which is too small and not stand alone. The older version I think had a stand alone or starboard to port version with a pull out seat
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Old 26-12-2010, 10:06   #159
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Salty... thats a Livingstone Design 38.... it'll blow a Wharram away....
Sorry to mess with your head mate.... just trying to break the circled waggons...
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Old 26-12-2010, 10:24   #160
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Great! Now I have a Livingstone in my head! Its like you just sang a bit of a tune and now I have an ear worm - a song stuck in me head all the rest of the day! ARRRG!#

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994.../United-States
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Old 26-12-2010, 10:34   #161
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Hi !
I have not seen the Oceanis 320 in the list ! Sorry but I had one from 1993 to 2000 and I was quite satisfied with her...
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Old 26-12-2010, 11:06   #162
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PLEASE then realise that the modern 35 foot race boat is built like the racing skiffs kids used before Optimists became ubiquitios.
Good point and agreed. As a established benchmark, I'm comparing all these boats. On the high performance pure racing boat a Farr 395 and to other established offshore cruisign boats, the Tartan 38, Sabre 38 and Pacific Seacraft 37. I'm familiar with the Farr 395 - I raced extensively and delivered from Hawaii to California. This boat sailed like a Laser and definitely would not make a good cruising boat. The boats' displacement, length and sail area figures are interesting.



Looking at the figures, the mid 80's First 38 and First 375 seem very similar to the Tartan, Sabre and Pacific Seacraft. I've looked at the First 38 and First 375 and they appear to be solid boats, the interiors are nice, solid, lots of wood. Both were used for coastal cruising. By the numbers, they appear to be comparable to the established offshore cruising boats, with displacement around 15,000+, SA/Disp at 15.6-16.5, DL at 125-130, not even close to the displacement and performance of the Farr 395 (light boat, large sail area). From this, it seems the mid 80's First 38 and First 375 are good candidates for a performance cruiser at 1/2 cost of the Tartan and Sabre and 1/4 cost of Pacific Seacraft!
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Old 26-12-2010, 11:34   #163
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Im not sure why the PSC 37 is on your list? I'd also include the Sabre 34 and the Tartan 37 -1 which are nice boats.

How about: a malo 38, Valiant 37, CN 37, CS 36, Rival 36, Dickerson 37?
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Old 26-12-2010, 12:34   #164
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I think you should be looking at other boats. I don't think either of you would be happy on a beneteau.

A man has to love his boat.

Its not like an investment appartment where you can say: "I hate it but its built over the train station so the renters will love it".

You can't hate the boat you sail and live on.


I love my boat and I think everyone who I have met who has been sucessfully cruising for a while loves their boats too.

Find one that you love.
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Old 26-12-2010, 12:58   #165
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Oh i don't really hate bennies Mark. I'm sure a boat will find me someday - bennie or whatever it is. There are too many to choose from or to test sail to make a definitive choice i think. It will probably be the given circumstances of the moment and where I am that will make me buy a what knot.
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