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Old 29-07-2009, 11:51   #1
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Beneteau 50 or 510 (or so)

we are ending at beneteau again in the 49+range maening 50 or 510 or whatever they are called but the Oceanis range

The lay out is great and pricing realistic for us to go cruising with son and family

We found the Idylles on the market too expensive and go for the next generation but main question is QUALITY......

WHICH ONE HAS A SINGLE SKIN HULL???? this is key for us

There is the Farr designed one and the Philip Briand designed ones next to the First series which is lay out not so our thing..........

who really knows ????????

We did all we could on internet etc but get the idea that ALL these Benies are single skin ......even the Firsts

is that so?

Kindly advise and appreciate to hear from sailor who know more about their weak points which we have to watch

look forward to your advise guys...oeps and girls

Eric
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Old 29-07-2009, 12:05   #2
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I think the hulls are solid glass... if that's what you mean by single skin hulls. Nothing wrong with this.
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Old 29-07-2009, 13:09   #3
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Not sure I can help you with the construction details. That said, We've owned our Beneteau 505 for about a year now. With 4 kids, the 4-cabin (plus crew quarters for storage) layout is perfect for us. The forward cabins have the wall removed by a previous owner, which make a perfect room for the 3 girls and a steady stream of their cousins that stay on board.

The boat sails really well, IMHO. It sails at anchor, so we are looking into getting/making an anchor sail.

Best part is, there are several available as they come out of the Moorings fleet.

If you need to talk with someone who owns one, send me a PM and I'll send you my phone number.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 29-07-2009, 16:47   #4
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If you can find a nice one I would go for the Beneteau 50 that's designed by Bruce Farr. This is the same hull as the First 53F5 which is even a better choice if good ones are still out there (these have a Pininfarina designed interior!!). This hull was designed for the Whitbread; the Bene 50 has a modified transom to make it a bit shorter.

More budget: First 47.7

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Old 29-07-2009, 18:29   #5
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If you can find a nice one I would go for the Beneteau 50 that's designed by Bruce Farr...
Were all the 50s designed by Bruce Farr? Wondering if mine was.
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Old 29-07-2009, 21:25   #6
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It sails at anchor, so we are looking into getting/making an anchor sail.
Mine (390) does this - its actually doing it right now and its pretty annoying. What is an anchor sail?

cheers
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Old 30-07-2009, 05:53   #7
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We appreciate all the input and look forward to more about what is the best 50 footer/ the farr or Briand?

sailing wise I am most interested if the early ones are anything related to the famous Farr hull

*anybody clear on if these hulls are single skin???
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Old 30-07-2009, 07:56   #8
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Mine (390) does this - its actually doing it right now and its pretty annoying. What is an anchor sail?

cheers
James
It's a pretty normal occurance in higher performance boats, I think. If you think of trying to shoot an arrow backwards (feathers first), you'll picture what is happening. There is enough windage area forward on your boat that it is catching the wind, to make her sail. You can either add windage in the back (much like a mizzen mast would do) or increase the water resistance in the front. (I heard rumors that lowering a large bucket filled with water off the bow can help.)

The best solution seems to be a sail that attaches to your back stay, much like a jib in reverse. That's what an anchor sail is. The trick is determining how big that sail needs to be. I think it needs to be bigger than you would typically think. There are also wedge-shaped sails that attach to double back stays, I imagine they would add wind resistance in general, but still exert less force on your anchor than a constantly tacking boat, which would have great windage when sideways to the wind and great pull when being pulled back to center by the anchor.

I'm sure there are some good threads around on this that would be better than my explanation, and google may help you see what anchor sails look like. Hope this helps.
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Old 30-07-2009, 08:05   #9
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John,

thanks for that explanation

*is your 505 single skiin ? Have just heard the Farr design is sandwich but am still not clear how they are called. 51 or 50
Oceanis is not always mentioned on the adds so confuses me still
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Old 30-07-2009, 09:16   #10
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Eric,

Your name is very Dutch and this is the first time I find one in Hungary ;-) How is it there on the sailing/cruising/living front?

Bruce Farr, imo, is a top designer and I would choose his design over that from Briand. The thing is that the Farr Bene's are somewhat older I think, so you must find a good one.

The Bene 50 that is designed by Farr is called: "Beneteau 50". No Oceanis. It is the same hull as the "Beneteau First 53F5" except for the above-waterline part of the stern. The Bene 50 was very popular for chartering in a 4-cabin, 4-head config. There is also an owners-version. Don't skip looking at the chartering version because those heads & cabins are easy to convert to storage/workshop etc.

I say again: there are still good 53F5's to be found, like from first owner with little miles under their keels. They are perfect and beautiful liveaboard boats. Pininfiari is the designer that does the Ferrari cars so the interior is very, very nice and this is mated with that Farr hull design. We were close to buying one once but couldn't live with the in-mast furling she had (they come with many different rigging designs incl. tall-rig racing and somewhat lower rig cruising masts. A survey should concentrate on checking the hull laminate.

You are writing about solid skin and cored skin. For older boats, both need to be checked carefully. If errors were made during the construction or later repairs/modifications, a core can get wet which is not good. There are many cruisers who don't like cored hulls because of that (they say) but you must understand that they have solid hulls (almost never had experience with cored), are overtaken by cored hulls now and then so their opinion is colored. Mine is too as Jedi is fully cored with balsa. A cored hull has many advantages, like stiffer, built-in insulation, lighter etc. Both solid and cored can de-laminate too. A full hull survey incl. sea trial (to check for flexing under sail and engine, incl. engine bed) is needed for older boats regardless of construction method.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 30-07-2009, 13:25   #11
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thanks Nick

the 53 is too expensive for us
the 50 is ok generally speaking

are you having a 64 aailed by the 2 of you?
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Old 30-07-2009, 13:47   #12
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Eric,

Not a 50, but I sail a Beneteau Oceanis 461 (1997) - The hull is a Farr design and the basic boat is quite well built. I -originally- wasn't so sure about the designer and wrote to Farr Yacht Designs at info@farrdesign.com and they provided very helpful information related to the design of my boat. Turns out, the hull is the same as 45f5 but with a Beneteau deck/interior design. She sails extremely well.

While researching, I had also contacted the Berret Racoupeau Yacht Design (olivier@berret-racoupeau.com) - They confirmed my findings (Farr) - these folks were extremely nice and helpful as well.

Sometimes, it is difficult to get information from Beneteau - Perhaps, you will have better luck contacting the designers.

BTW, I singlehand the 461 w/o much difficulty - the 50s aren't much different.

Good luck and fair winds to you!

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Old 30-07-2009, 17:31   #13
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thanks Nick

the 53 is too expensive for us
the 50 is ok generally speaking

are you having a 64 aailed by the 2 of you?
both the 50 and the 53f5 are $240k and up in reasonable to good condition. The difference is that the 53f5 will be built in 1992 and the 50 in 1997. So yes, the 53f5 is more expensive in the sense that you get an older boat for the same amount of money. It's a nicer boat too.

a $180k bene 50 must have something wrong with her (or her owner...). Strange thing is that I saw a 50 listed as a Frers design... so there might be different 50's around or they state the wrong model no.

Yes, we sail Jedi with just the two of us and it's the easiest boat I ever sailed. Bigger boats are easier if they are modern designs because they "behave" much better, both under sail and under power. The negatives are higher marina & haul-out costs and (much) more anti-fouling paint needed. The rest of the maintenance costs is all the same as for a 45' boat. (systems are the same until you go to 60+' Oysters, Swans etc.)

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 09-08-2009, 15:00   #14
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thanks so far guys / we are concentrating on the so called"Beneteau 50" which is the Farr designed hull with Briand deck and interior

they apparently were built till 2004 but who knows from when onwards 1996?

Apparently only built in France mainly for charter

Sandwhich all the way with Balsa ???? this is not clear yet either

We searched internet till the eyes burn but can not find too much on her bult quality but we believe that if Farr gives the structural advise how to build them then the yard has to do so and we read some good experiences on her hull strenght...........

WHO KNOWS MORE

appreciate any input

Eric
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Old 09-08-2009, 16:48   #15
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These hulls are okay. But do check for wood rot inside around the keel stepped mast. You will smell it or the cover-up air refresher. It's caused by (rain) water coming down the mast.

I am not sure anymore if the balsa core was underwater too, it's too long ago. But I do remember it wasn't an issue.

cheers,
Nick.
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