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Old 27-11-2007, 05:42   #16
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Much appreciated information. I have another friend with loads of experience and he echoed your sentiments on the Idylle.
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Old 27-11-2007, 07:40   #17
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This has been a somewhat enlightening thread. I had never really given much thought to a Beneteau as a possible live aboard blue water cruiser. Then at the boat show">Annapolis boat show my wife and I met Liza Copeland. Then I read this thread. Then I did a bit of looking around on Yachtworld.

hmmmmmmmmm

I do like the First 456. But there are none for sale in the US at all that I can see. I also like the Idylle 51's. They seem like a very nice cruising boat and the prices are decent.

Any further comments on how the Idylle series sails? Heavy enough to handle blue water? How would this compare to an older Gulfstar 50 relative to sea kindliness and such? Fast is of course fun but safe and comfortable is more important for our family plans.


Terry
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Old 02-12-2007, 18:57   #18
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I also own a FIRST 42 and love it..We (wife and I) moved aboard it 4 years ago and haven't looked back sence. It is a sexy boat and there are a few things you have to get used to as it was said, built for racing, and we're using it for cruising.
Our first choice was a FIRST 38 but were unable to find one. The 456 we looked at had lots-a-room but the one we looked at had teak decks and we wanted to stay away from that as we've heard horror storys about leaks.
One of the main reasons we chose a FIRST series was that the boat was race designed and proven to withstand the riggors of off-shore abuse. Something I hope we'll never need. the boats sails extreamly well, points like a hound-dog, and runs like she's on rails... Our boat is a two stateroom model but I've heard there are three room models out there..
Many bennies get a bad rap for one reason or another, and the US model could be part of the reason.. To compete in the US market, They had to compete with Cats and that ment more room in the cockpit (to entertain) as most dont even leave the slip.
I would say, If looking for a Beneteau, Make it a FIRST series........
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:02   #19
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I have been told by a very experienced sailor and delivery captain that the Idylle is essentially the cruising version of the First series. Both designed by German Frers, and both extremely sea worthy. The hull shape is nothing in comparison with today's Benes. I've seen a couple of 456s for sale in the US. There is one in Florida for around 105k - not on yachtworld. You will need to google First 456. We may have to fight over the Idylle 51's as there are only 3 or 4 on this side of the pond on yachtworld.

It will be several months before we make any decisions, but I definitely am keeping the First/Idylle series as part of my top 5 boat choices. We'll just have to see what turns up when it is time to move.
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:29   #20
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Any of the older Benes are going to be better built boat then the current series. They will also be better sea boats. Most of the newer Benes are designed for the charter trade and coastal cruising.
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Old 01-01-2008, 11:13   #21
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Idylle 15.5

My wife and I bought an Idylle 15.5 in 1998 and we have lived aboard her since then. We modified her from 3 to 2 staterooms with a queen size bed in the front. They were also known as Moorings 51's. These boats designed by German Frers were built by Beneteau but are very strong and excellent offshore.
We have sailed from Trinidad to Maine to Guatemala and points in Between. Hurricane lenny caught us in St. Croix. We had our three anchors lifted by another boat that dragged and we wound up in three feet of water at 40 degree angle. Lifted by a crane, we were hauled out and the keel sand blasted and the rudder repaired. No other damage. We installed two 16,000 BTU reverse cycle A/C and when we were up in Maine, the heat came in very handy.
We were part of the flotilla in the 2002 sailboat parade for the 9/11 anniversary. There are a few of these boats available with three staterooms and crew cabin in the bow.
Look up Idylle 15.5 in Google or go to Yachtworld.com. Ours is there for sale. One problem with the newer reverse stern boats is the water slaping under the hull. Also minimal bilge and very thin Hull.
I lost my headstay sailing up wind in the Gulf Stream against a northeasterly and the mast stayed in place.
We are selling her because of my age (68), not because of the boat. You will not regret buying an Idylle 15.5
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Old 01-01-2008, 13:56   #22
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I own an Idylle 11.5 and I like it a lot, even though I have not yet had the opportunity to sail it much. I am very impressed with the way Beneteau designs, engineers and builds boats. The layout below on my boat is superb for short term cruising (eg a month or two at a time), but it would need some changes to be a great liveaboard, as I would like more storage space and tankage in a liveaboard, voyaging boat.

My boat was designed by Beneteau's in-house designers, not Frers. But it's a great design. The hull shape, IMO is not dramatically different from other Ben's of similar size, but it does have a shoal draft keel (5 feet) and a good solid skeg for the rudder with a longitudinal piece that stretches forward into the hull bottom from the front of the skeg. The result is that the boat tracks very nicely, and handles pretty well in a seaway.

It won't point very high without a deep keel, but it's very fast on other points of sail.

I love the big Perkins 50 hp, but whoever decided to put the engine panel at the nav station instead of the cockpit should be keelhauled.

It would not be very difficult at all to increase all the tankage, and the storage space below is probably adequate for two. There is tremendous storage as well in three cockpit lazarettes that could be used for canned foods, etc.

The displacement would put it on the light side for a blue water boat, but that's not a show stopper, IMHO.

I would have no hesitation about a Beneteau Idylle as a liveaboard voyaging boat.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:03   #23
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Swan 46 vs. Beneteau 456, Interesting

There is no comparison in terms of craftmanship but...

For the price you can't beat the used 456:





Beneteau 456 - German Frers


Swan 46 - German Frers
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Old 13-01-2009, 09:25   #24
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barboak

Hi there; we are ready to make an offer on a 456 and wonder how the ventilation is to the aft cabin?
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Old 13-01-2009, 10:54   #25
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I guess you are looking at the aft master cabin model...

I have the other model and the aft cabins are a little warm here in the tropics. But recently I saw a master aft cabin model and didn't feel it was too warm, I guess you can get by with a couple of fans.





Quote:
Originally Posted by barboak@yahoo.c View Post
Hi there; we are ready to make an offer on a 456 and wonder how the ventilation is to the aft cabin?
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Old 13-01-2009, 11:21   #26
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Hey thanks for the quick reply, yeah it is master aft cabin version and we may fly and look at her later this week. It has a Volvo 50hp engine, which I hope may provide more punch than the 4-108, though the boat looks like she sails!
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Old 13-01-2009, 11:26   #27
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Is that boat in the caribbean?

I know that Flash Vert is for sale in St. Thomas....
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Old 13-01-2009, 11:35   #28
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Thanks I know I see it listed, but the broker in St. Thomas is real bad on replying to my queries as I asked about seeing the boat and some other info and they rarely reply. It has been an eyeopener seeing the difference between brokers, especially in communication skills. Anyhow we are looking at Dark Star in Bequia, which by the way is quite difficult to get to, at least from Bonaire where we are now. She is a bit different but looks good
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Old 19-01-2009, 23:48   #29
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I've looked at all the Beneteaus you have mentioned, and sailed on all of them. Day sailing wise, you can't really go past the Farr designed Farr 46 hull, but cruising wise, the Frers 51 is solid and very pretty. I met a couple in Fiji in 98 who managed to get to the Marquesas after the rudder dropped off mid passage. They too had converted the fwd cabins to a massive single.

Build quality is better on the 51's (at least hull wise). Beware of the 90-97 Beneteaus as they may have problems associated with the hull layup (I know the smaller 40's do.

The 51's drop down boarding steps are another bonus.

All round, a very nice (though probably well used) cruiser.
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Old 26-02-2009, 10:47   #30
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I would just like to post in defense of the 461. After living 4 years onboard our oceanis 461 and having sailed more than 25000 miles including atlantic crossings bothways and in strong wind conditions, both forward and aft of the beam. I would say that these are lovely safe and extremely competent ocean cruisers, exactly what they are built for. We have fast passages and have sailed in over 30knts. She has the same hull as 45f5 but a better rigg as it is not fractional and we have placed a second inner forestay to allow us to pole out. What I would say about free advice from armchair sailors is that it is worth exactly what it cost :-)
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