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Old 26-11-2015, 20:42   #16
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

With a deck stepped mast you could install extra check stays from the chainplates up to near the gooseneck or higher. You can probably also greatly improve the strength of the compression post between the deck and keel under the mast step. I have done both for my deck stepped mast though I'm not planning a circumnavigation but I still want it strong.


Sometimes to take compression another mast step fitting is used under the deck with a say 7' length of mast extrusion down to the keel. The mast steps are bolted together through the deck. A pair of wedges and epoxy take up the clearance at the bottom or variations to suit. Then it's probably as strong or stronger than a keel stepped mast.
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Old 27-11-2015, 05:49   #17
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by Freshman View Post
Would you choose Beneteau 46 (shallow keel- 1,70m)for sailing round the world?
Do you think it can be ''bluewater cruiser'' ?
Mast is deck stepped is it strong enough solution?

Has anybody sailed B46 in heavy weather?
The Bene 46 you're considering is a great design and will easily circumnavigate. If I may add, from my experience and perspective: there are more purpose built sailboats for sailing the oceans but you will be Ok. I had a bene 473 for 5 years and she was an awesome boat, never gave us any sense of not being up to the task. Upon long consideration, I have concluded the one main compromise was comfort at sea and at anchorage. The Bene's are light and fast and as such don't have as comfy a motion in big seas as the heavier boats. The newer wider stern designs also make for a quicker rolling motion. So in short, you won't be as comfy and will get more fatigued but you may just get to where you're going a little quicker.

Hope this helps
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Old 27-11-2015, 06:59   #18
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by Svalan View Post
It should be a fine boat for circumnavigating. As so much else concerning "proper" blue water yachts, keel stepped vs. deck stepped masts is a religious question. The Hallberg-Rassy range of yachts is built uniformly with deck-stepped masts. Always have been. Nobody would say that they are not superbly suited for water sailing">blue water sailing. It all depends on the quality.
Hallberg-Rassy keel-steps their masts, at least on their 46'. Maybe you're thinking of Hans Christian?
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Old 27-11-2015, 09:09   #19
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshman View Post
Would you choose Beneteau 46 (shallow keel- 1,70m)for sailing round the world?
Do you think it can be ''bluewater cruiser'' ?
Mast is deck stepped is it strong enough solution?

Has anybody sailed B46 in heavy weather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_sailor View Post
Most production cruisers over 40ft should be fine for circumnavigation as long as your smart enough to know what to do and don't push to hard


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Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
You'll get a multitude of opinions on this subject. Aussie sailor says it rather succinctly. The last part of his sentence

"as long as your smart enough to know what to do and don't push to hard "

is important to note (no matter which boat you sail)

All this might be true but where is that at? Why not just buy an older cruising boat that is designed for the intended purpose.
Ive also noticed all the armchair Naval Architect have come out of the woodwork. My HR is deck step and I have been in many blows without any hint of failure.
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Old 28-11-2015, 01:30   #20
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
All this might be true but where is that at? Why not just buy an older cruising boat that is designed for the intended purpose.
Ive also noticed all the armchair Naval Architect have come out of the woodwork. My HR is deck step and I have been in many blows without any hint of failure.
Aren't B46 designed/made for such cruising?

I am not going to push it into the limits
("as long as your smart enough to know what to do and don't push to hard "
is important to note (no matter which boat you sail)


but I wonder what may happen if I meet such conditions.

Buying an older cruising boat is some kind of option but it will be really older 10-15 years more.

We all buy new or newer things as knowledge and materials develop and really 15 years old boat is better than the 5 years one?
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Old 28-11-2015, 05:00   #21
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
All this might be true but where is that at? Why not just buy an older cruising boat that is designed for the intended purpose.
Ive also noticed all the armchair Naval Architect have come out of the woodwork. My HR is deck step and I have been in many blows without any hint of failure.
The B46 is designed for cruising and its a damn fine boat.
I would have no qualms whatsoever about sailing it around the world.

Some other notes:

He who drives his boat hard on a long passage, no matter which boat, Oyster, Bene or Gunboat is a fool. Breakage at sea can be dangerous. I am happy to say my recent 1,300nm 10 day upwind passage had no breakage at all. None.

Re arm chair naval architects who suggest changing rigging etc: don't. That's another fools errand. The folks who design a particular boat do so for reason (partially budget) and theirs are better that yours. Someone's 'strengthening' of a boat may well ensure the converse.



Btw, the B473 2 cabin version with the walk in lazarette is the best world cruiser and at a great price point.
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Old 28-11-2015, 05:09   #22
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshman View Post
We all buy new or newer things as knowledge and materials develop and really 15 years old boat is better than the 5 years one?
Of course you are right.
Its stupid to listen to people say buy old boats.
Would you buy a 1999 car and say its better than a new one off the showroom floor?

Would you buy a 15 year old washing machine instead of new? A 15 year old razor because the old ones shave better?

Materials, engineering and production systems have a advanced amazingly in the 15 years. Just because we are not all on Hoverboards doesn't mean we are not already in the future.
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Old 28-11-2015, 09:49   #23
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Of course you are right.
Its stupid to listen to people say buy old boats.
Would you buy a 1999 car and say its better than a new one off the showroom floor?

Would you buy a 15 year old washing machine instead of new? A 15 year old razor because the old ones shave better?

Materials, engineering and production systems have a advanced amazingly in the 15 years. Just because we are not all on Hoverboards doesn't mean we are not already in the future.
I disagree that it is stupid to buy older boats. For the most part, boats are not built as heavy as they used to be. Pacific Seacraft is an exception along with Island Packet, from what I understand their design specs have always remained the same. I will use Nautors Swan as an example. The early S&S boats were overbuilt because the factory really did not know how much thickness was required in the hulls. Per their own workers you could almost use them as icebreakers. When they changed to Frers and Ron Holland they relied more on the iron/steel grid for strength and they used slightly thinner hulls. The newest boats are very thin and use carbon fiber and other newer materials. Looking at the overhangs, they get shorter as the boats get newer. The keel shape has also changed with the newer boats going away from the graceful slope of the S&S keels. I would think that the older boats would fare better if grounded. If I won the powerball and decided to get a new boat I would not buy a new Swan, I would buy an older boat and throw $$$$$ at it.
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:34   #24
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
The B46 is designed for cruising and its a damn fine boat

Re arm chair naval architects who suggest changing rigging etc: don't. That's another fools errand. The folks who design a particular boat do so for reason (partially budget) and theirs are better that yours. Someone's 'strengthening' of a boat may well ensure the converse.
.
Well if I were intending to sail a factory mass produced boat around the World I would certainly be doing some strengthening and other modifications first.
But I am used to successfully doing such work and not afraid of doing it.
I would probably start with the main hatchway and reduce its size. Possibly I'd look at the volume of the cockpit and check whether it's floor could support a ton of water. At the same time I would see if the cockpit drains are adequate. I would also look at the fore hatch and likely strengthen that. I would certainly look at the cabin windows and likely reducing their size. Maybe I would make a small hard dodger. I would likely make changes to the galley and install hand grips inside the cabin. I could go on but I won't.
I would also be getting experienced opinions from others with the boat in front of them.
Before Jessica Watson sailed Emma's Pink Lady around the world her family reportedly spent a small fortune on preparing it.
It would be a fools errand to do nothing.
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:39   #25
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
just finished a 10 day upwind passage from the USA to the Caribbean - from Beaufort North Carolina to St Martin.
10 days upwind, no breakages.
Dude; weren't you just in NYC?
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Old 28-11-2015, 16:02   #26
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Freshman,

I think you have a qualified "yes" to your B46 inquiry. There are caveats that need exploring as with all forum threads, drift has occurred.

As I understand it, you are "cruising" on your circumnavigation? By my definition, that is moving from location a to location b sequentially with current state of the art positional and situational awareness, and not camping - enjoying and appreciating your surroundings in terms hygiene, food, environmental comfort and safety.

A well maintained production vessel in the mid-40's , B46 can easily accomplish this with the occasional exposure to heavy weather. With today's weather prognostications, there should be no excuse for multiple day exposures to sustained winds over 40 knots and the accompanying sea states.

Referencing the preparation and expenses of Pink Lady is comparing apples to oranges. Jessica's parents were preparing for a RACE that required her to keep the boat moving into whatever conditions she may encounter with only minor deviations in course and timing allowed. I would say they were successful. I don't think that is your objective.

I would be very interested in hearing more about MarkJ's recent passage to St Maarten in terms of boat performance and his sailing procedures and decisions in regard to speed, crew comfort and response to seastate and stress levels on the sail plan and rigging.

Buried in his posts are these impressive facts:

Rhumb line distance Beaufort to St. Maarten. =. 1230 NM.

Passage Duration. =. 10 days

Remember , this is to windward , so speed and distance over ground goes up by 1.3.

Also, he was swimming up the river (Gulfstream) for a good portion.

Not bad for a production boat, eh?

I would listen closely to his experiences and opinions relative to your requirements.

John





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Old 28-11-2015, 16:50   #27
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by japarker11 View Post
Freshman,

I think you have a qualified "yes" to your B46 inquiry. There are caveats that need exploring as with all forum threads, drift has occurred.

As I understand it, you are "cruising" on your circumnavigation? By my definition, that is moving from location a to location b sequentially with current state of the art positional and situational awareness, and not camping - enjoying and appreciating your surroundings in terms hygiene, food, environmental comfort and safety.

A well maintained production vessel in the mid-40's , B46 can easily accomplish this with the occasional exposure to heavy weather. With today's weather prognostications, there should be no excuse for multiple day exposures to sustained winds over 40 knots and the accompanying sea states.

Referencing the preparation and expenses of Pink Lady is comparing apples to oranges. Jessica's parents were preparing for a RACE that required her to keep the boat moving into whatever conditions she may encounter with only minor deviations in course and timing allowed. I would say they were successful. I don't think that is your objective.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I was simply saying what I would do. People are free to do what they want. Incidentally if you can, look at a South Pacific weather map for today. There is a tropical cyclone forming near Samoa, and heading towards Niue. It wasn't showing 2 days ago and it is a good month ahead of the usual cyclone season. The Pacific Ocean is not always peaceful.
A tropical cyclone is only different from a hurricane in that it revolves clockwise.
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Old 28-11-2015, 19:01   #28
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshman View Post
Aren't B46 designed/made for such cruising?

I am not going to push it into the limits
("as long as your smart enough to know what to do and don't push to hard "
is important to note (no matter which boat you sail)


but I wonder what may happen if I meet such conditions.

Buying an older cruising boat is some kind of option but it will be really older 10-15 years more.

We all buy new or newer things as knowledge and materials develop and really 15 years old boat is better than the 5 years one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
The B46 is designed for cruising and its a damn fine boat.
I would have no qualms whatsoever about sailing it around the world.

Some other notes:

He who drives his boat hard on a long passage, no matter which boat, Oyster, Bene or Gunboat is a fool. Breakage at sea can be dangerous. I am happy to say my recent 1,300nm 10 day upwind passage had no breakage at all. None.

Re arm chair naval architects who suggest changing rigging etc: don't. That's another fools errand. The folks who design a particular boat do so for reason (partially budget) and theirs are better that yours. Someone's 'strengthening' of a boat may well ensure the converse.



Btw, the B473 2 cabin version with the walk in lazarette is the best world cruiser and at a great price point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Of course you are right.
Its stupid to listen to people say buy old boats.
Would you buy a 1999 car and say its better than a new one off the showroom floor?

Would you buy a 15 year old washing machine instead of new? A 15 year old razor because the old ones shave better?

Materials, engineering and production systems have a advanced amazingly in the 15 years. Just because we are not all on Hoverboards doesn't mean we are not already in the future.
Well...since you are comparing boats to cars...I guess a new Ford Fiesta (which I just rented for the Thanksgiving weekend...ughh!) to a used Ford Fiesta, then yes, you're right. Of course a new Benehuntalina is better than a used one. But please convince me one of these new boats are better, safer and built as well as a 25+ year old Swan, Cheribini, Hallberg-Rassy or Sundeer.
....and please the "as knowledge and materials develop" really means a faster and cheaper way of building.
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Old 28-11-2015, 19:18   #29
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

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Well...since you are comparing boats to cars...I guess a new Ford Fiesta (which I just rented for the Thanksgiving weekend...ughh!) to a used Ford Fiesta, then yes, you're right. Of course a new Benehuntalina is better than a used one. But please convince me one of these new boats are better, safer and built as well as a 25+ year old Swan, Cheribini, Hallberg-Rassy or Sundeer.
....and please the "as knowledge and materials develop" really means a faster and cheaper way of building.
I'd agree with you there. However I think it depends on whether you already own a Beneteau 46 and want to sail away, or whether you are wondering whether to buy one and sail away. As someone wrote "They are a damn fine boat". They are too, but they are designed with the charter market in mind, and they are mass produced.
Would you choose a stock Ford Explorer for the Dakar Rally or would you get a Landcruiser. The Ford is a damn fine car but the Landcruiser is better for the Dakar.
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Old 28-11-2015, 19:49   #30
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Re: Beneteau 46 - for circumnavigation?

To be honest, I would buy a 40 year old Westsail 42/43 over a new production boat.
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