Visit our Popular Forums

jesperht · 26-01-2014, 10:54

I am looking for a bigger boat and consider one of these. Anyone have experience with one or both of them? Cons and pros?
We are going to use it for cruising, blue water and a part time live-a-board in the summertime.
Our current boat is a scandinavian build, so i guess we will go to a less good quality, but it seems that these french boats will get us more bang for the buck than a boat from scandinavia. We have also been looking on german boats, Bavaria and Hanse, but i find the quality very bad, and i really dont like these brands.

robert sailor · 26-01-2014, 12:59

Interesting opinions about quality. You may have done more homework than me because I think the French boats and German boats are very similar, similar in production methods, quality and price.

Prairie Chicken · 26-01-2014, 14:19

A friend in our marina has a brand spanking new Bavaria. We weren't surprised at the poor build quality of the boat, but what really surprised us were the poor designs of various items on the boat--like the fuel filler inside the cockpit over deak, and the small board over the engine controls that are in the way whenever trying to dock. We'll take our much older Beneteau or Jeanneau any day over the new Bavaria.

robert sailor · 27-01-2014, 00:23

Hey PC when you talk about poor quality of the German boats exactly what are you seeing or not seeing?? Even the best builders will often put things in crazy places but I don't think the Germans have the corner on that market.

Prairie Chicken · 27-01-2014, 07:21

Sorry Robert, I likely wasn't making myself clear. I don't know of any of the newer production boats that I'd call well made when compared to boats built earlier than say, 2005. Some may be; I just haven't encountered them. In about the early 2000's Bavaria flooded the market with 'affordable' yachts for everyone. At that time the other production builders made a pretty good product, but afterward they all had to water down their quality to compete with Bavaria.

Put another other way, every year we go to the boat show & look at the new Beneteau on show and agree that we wouldn't trade our 1986 model for the brand new one, even if you gave it to us. Our old Bene has thick glass, thick gelcoat (& polishes up to shine like new), thick & real teak. The interior joinery is real wood, thick & lots of it, beautifully curved. It was made with quality and has been well maintained. I don't believe that even with good maintenance the new products would last & look as good because of the quality or perhaps lack of quantity of the new building materials. We wouldn't trade our old Bene for our friends' Bavaria either, even though the Bavaria is 2 1/2' longer and 27 years newer.

robert sailor · 27-01-2014, 07:33

OK seems like you have been observant and because you own an older model I expect you have lots to compare with. Your views are interesting, I have heard similar stories but I have never owned a French/German production boat old or new so I have nothing to really compare to. Which boat are you cruising on?? I see you have 2 listed.

Prairie Chicken · 27-01-2014, 07:45

We're in Mallorca so yes, we've had lots to compare and had plenty of time to watch the changes come about. We've had the Bene for almost 21 years now but bought the Jeanneau last fall in a move to something larger. The Jeanneau is a 2002 so still old enough to have wood and quality. The Bene is for sale.

jesperht · 27-01-2014, 09:39

As i see it, Scandinavian boats are the best build, in anyway, Bavaria is, by far the worst. Somewhere in between is the French boats. And for all the boats, the quality is better on the older boats. I would love to get a Scandinavian boat, but the price is 2-3 times higher than the French, and SO much better are they not imho.

The Bene 430 and Gibsea 126 are older boats, and the quality seems ok. Any words on these boats?

DoubleWhisky · 28-01-2014, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Sorry Robert, I likely wasn't making myself clear. I don't know of any of the newer production boats that I'd call well made when compared to boats built earlier than say, 2005. Some may be; I just haven't encountered them. In about the early 2000's Bavaria flooded the market with 'affordable' yachts for everyone. At that time the other production builders made a pretty good product, but afterward they all had to water down their quality to compete with Bavaria.

Put another other way, every year we go to the boat show & look at the new Beneteau on show and agree that we wouldn't trade our 1986 model for the brand new one, even if you gave it to us. Our old Bene has thick glass, thick gelcoat (& polishes up to shine like new), thick & real teak. The interior joinery is real wood, thick & lots of it, beautifully curved. It was made with quality and has been well maintained. I don't believe that even with good maintenance the new products would last & look as good because of the quality or perhaps lack of quantity of the new building materials. We wouldn't trade our old Bene for our friends' Bavaria either, even though the Bavaria is 2 1/2' longer and 27 years newer.

Hello

Have to agree with You on most of the points You made.
Personally I think the Bavarias now in production are somewhat more substantially built than in early 2000s. Nevertheless damage is done. Bavaris and Hanse stick to their cost cutting philosophy, so Beneteau Group is following - even unvoluntarily. It even affected their top yard, the CNB. Searching this forum You can find some info regarding their "budget big boat" - Bordeaux 60 and its quality issues. Now they introduced CNB 76, and even test in Yachting World is not very enthusistic, quality related (remembering Beneteau Group is huge advertiser for YW, You need read a little between lines). Both boats were kind of an countermeasure for Hanse going big - 630, 675 and announced last year 70+ footer.
Of course - Scandinavian boats are not all otstanding quality.
I do nat think that for example Sweden Yachts and Nordship are exactly the same league regarding quality. But general problem is that quality thorough the industry is descending and one can not see anything, suggesting the reverse of the trend.

Best regards

Tomasz