Beneteau 38

[RKsailsolo]

Good to hear Oceanis 38 owners are enjoying their boats.

[mstrebe]

Here's an owner's report regarding storm handling in the PNW (from the Facebook O38 owner's group):

"We had quite a nasty little summer storm up here in the pacific northwest last Saturday. We were on our way back to Seattle from the San Juan Islands and made the smart call to ride out the storm in Port Townsend marina. I recorded sustained winds of 45 knots and gusts to 57 knots. The Oceanis 38 took it in stride. We then had a nice blustery 8 hour sail home the next day, upwind in 25-30 knots and 4-5 ft seas. I was super happy with the stability of the boat and how she took the seas."

They rode out the F11 storm in harbor, and sailed in F6 conditions.

This was the storm: Strongest summer storm ever in the PNW

[TheWildDingo]

For brand spanking new Bene 38s from the factory ... are they only available with B&G electronics? I believe there are two electronic packs available to choose from?

No option to select, for example, all RayMarine products (backbone, radar, chart plotter, radio, etc)?

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by TheWildDingo

For brand spanking new Bene 38s from the factory ... are they only available with B&G electronics? I believe there are two electronic packs available to choose from?

No option to select, for example, all RayMarine products (backbone, radar, chart plotter, radio, etc)?

Only B&G from the factory. You can order it with no trons and do your own install.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Fluer de Mer]

TheWildDingo…just curious if you have a POV on BandG versus other brands. If so, pls share. Thx FdM

[TheWildDingo]

Originally Posted by Fluer de Mer

TheWildDingo…just curious if you have a POV on BandG versus other brands. If so, pls share. Thx FdM

Only anecdotally from what I've read on this website. For new equipment it seems that both B&G and Raymarine receive two thumbs up from their owners, however, as Myknjul mentions ...

"I have a complete suite of Zues gear (2014) and struggled for 18 months with AP disengagements, radio changing to the weather channel, dropped GPS, wind data that disappears... Finally got a Navico guy to come out and do a couple of updates and disable the AIS feature in my V50/H50 radio. Seems it conflicted with the AIS-400."

(quote from the thread "Are there any B&G/Simrad/Navico owners without troubles?" under 'Marine Electronics' - goes into depth on some electronic issues)

Sailors seem to love the B&G sailsteer (laylines) functionality on the Zeus2 chartplotters. The demo on their website is certainly impressive.

Raymarine offers similar with their dynamic laylines with their Lighthouse II software (LightHouse II Software | Raymarine Software)

The biggest issue seems to be the mix-n-matching of equipment which for whatever reason (network connectivity?, proprietary data feeds?) causes problems with owners needing to isolate equipment to troubleshoot problems. That sounds like a PITA. At least out of the factory, with the one system provider, fingers cant be pointed at 'it's the other guy'.

I don't think you could go wrong with either brands really. I'm additionally impressed with the ability to connect chartplotters to, for example, an iPad via wifi. Stick the iPad in a IP-68 certified lifeproof case, and you have a convenient display without needing to be at the helm.

Edit: mstrebe may have some interesting views - it sounds like he has had a few issues with his all-stock factory installed B&G equipment ...

[mstrebe]

I have a full factory B&G suite on my 38' and a Garmin/RayMarine/Maretron network on my 26' boat, all gear that I installed myself.

I've had far more problems with the B&G gear, and none at all with the network I built myself. The B&G Zeus gear was released before it was fully baked. I had the autopilot disconnects, the AIS radio problems, and other crashing issues with the Zeus T7. Firmware updates have fixed all of these, but it's taken over two years to deliver the necessary updates.

Going single-vendor and factory-installed is no guarantee of problem-free implementations. Furthermore, you know nothing about the network initially and will have to research it to troubleshoot problems yourself.

On my 26', I installed the following equipment and even made my own NMEA2000 to SeaTalkNG adapters.

Garmin 740s Chartplotter
Evinrude ETEC engine cable
RayMarine EV-100 autopilot
p70 control head
EV-1 course computer
9-axis sensor
Maretron WSO-100 anemometer
Madman Marine iPhone/Wifi autopilot controller
RayMarine SeaTalk to SeaTalkNG adapter
SIMRAD RS-35 VHF+AIS
GARMIN Quatix ANT+ transmitter

Everything works perfectly fine, with no compatibility issues whatsoever.

The problems people are having come down to just two issues:

1) Incorrectly wired networks
2) Bugs and incompatibilities in device firmware

You fix 1 by knowing what you're doing and following the published rules for wiring.

You fix 2 by thoroughly researching user reports for every device you intend to buy before you buy it.

When you install the network yourself, component by component, you know exactly how everything is wired and configured and you'll have no issues troubleshooting it yourself.

[TheWildDingo]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

Going single-vendor and factory-installed is no guarantee of problem-free implementations.

Of course, but one would expect the vendor's products to fit/function for own integrated design.

Originally Posted by mstrebe

Furthermore, you know nothing about the network initially and will have to research it to troubleshoot problems yourself.

No network topology from the factory? What about even a basic marketecture diagram?

Originally Posted by mstrebe

2) Bugs and incompatibilities in device firmware.
You fix 2 by thoroughly researching user reports for every device you intend to buy before you buy it.

Yeah, I don't know how feasible that really is for Joe Average. Shoot, I cant even get a proper HDMI handshake out of my TIVO to my AV receiver, let alone troubleshoot firmware ... unless it is addressed in an update with applicable notes.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by TheWildDingo

Of course, but one would expect the vendor's products to fit/function for own integrated design.



No network topology from the factory? What about even a basic marketecture diagram?



Yeah, I don't know how feasible that really is for Joe Average. Shoot, I cant even get a proper HDMI handshake out of my TIVO to my AV receiver, let alone troubleshoot firmware ... unless it is addressed in an update with applicable notes.

The Beneteau manual is good for all the other systems, but it has nothing on the navigation electronics because they are optional. Of course the B&G manuals don't talk about the specific implementation.

What I've deduced from finding and looking at the network is that it's a collapsed backbone with a home-run going to each device and the backbone all in one place behind the electrical panel. So pretty simple.

[RKsailsolo]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

The Beneteau manual is good for all the other systems, but it has nothing on the navigation electronics because they are optional. Of course the B&G manuals don't talk about the specific implementation.

What I've deduced from finding and looking at the network is that it's a collapsed backbone with a home-run going to each device and the backbone all in one place behind the electrical panel. So pretty simple.

Maybe for you (simple). ; )

[Fluer de Mer]

Owner update - Saildrive failure: After 9 months of great sailing, the standard Yanmar SD20 saildrive has failed. Specifically, while backing into our slip, the drive unexpectedly switched and stuck into forward. Fortunately other boats, paddle boarders, and swimmers were not present at the time and so we were able to avoid what could have been a very dangerous situation. We were forced to abandon docking and instead motored over to a Yanmar certified yard. During the trip over, we called the yard and the Yanmar certified technician immediately correctly diagnosed the problem as a failed shifter pin (a small $2 metal pin that is positioned above all the gears and which allows the drive to shift into forward or reverse - see photo of properly flared pin and gears). It turns out that several drives with these pins have failed very recently in the Bay Area alone and so the yard was familiar with the issue. These inexpensive yet critical pins seem to be either badly designed or improperly installed. Regardless, when they do fail, they either work their way harmlessly down the side of the saildrive housing and rest at the bottom, or [as in our case] fall straight down through the gears and grind their way down leaving lots of bits of metal and potential damage (see photo examples of both situations). The warranty process has been painfully slow For example, we are in our fourth week since the failure and Yanmar has just now given the yard approval to take the entire saildrive out of the boat. It is my understanding that the yard will now a) move the engine forward onto a special sled, b) take both the upper and lower units of the drive out, c) evaluate and photograph each part so that its condition will be documented for Yanmar , and d) provide Yanmar with a cost estimate for fixing or replacing it. The yard tells me that this is a fast and clean process for them to complete but that Yanmar will then have to give the go-ahead on the yard’s repair or replace recommendation - potentially another long black-hole-from-hell warranty process delay

[mstrebe]

Egads.

Hopefully this will lead to a recall of the pin in question with a replacement that can't work its way out.

[hellosailor]

Fleur-
If the engine/drive is only 9 months old, one hopes the original warranty applies. but if you are not familiar with them, look upthe Maggnusson-Moss Act and similar federal consume warranty laws, long with your state ones. Sometimes, the manufacturer hasn't dotted all their p's and q's and you are entitled to greater and faster relief than what they offer.
And then there's the questio of just what might have been impacted, that thye would normally ignore. Like bearings, that might have absorbed an excess side load as the pin was passed through the gear teeth. If there's any question, whatever might have been impacted should be replaced. And needless to say "Oh here's another brand new pin, same exact kind" wouldn't quite be right either.
Unless they've waived consequential damages...you might also be entitled to a rental loaner boat.(G)

[Mattdwyerva]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

...

I do worry about the very open stern in weather and would recommend both a tether and a solid tube installed across the transom when offshore in addition to the safety lines.

What about doing a netting instead a solid tube? Still get wet but stay aboard, and less likely to have catastrophic failure in storm, and easy to stow.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by Mattdwyerva

What about doing a netting instead a solid tube? Still get wet but stay aboard, and less likely to have catastrophic failure in storm, and easy to stow.

That's a better idea. I wonder if a truck tailgate net would fit?