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Old 03-07-2015, 09:37   #601
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Re: Beneteau 38

JB, The Vision is a lovely boat…it is visually beautiful, and like the O38, cleverly designed. When we started looking for a new boat two years ago the V42 was at the top of our list. We even flew down to San Diego to see/sail one. We also chartered a V46 in the BVI to get a better sense of it – it is just a bit longer than the V42, but has the same sharp design and features. We really liked:
  • The offset companionway which opens up the usable space below deck by eliminating one of the aft cabin hallways, and in the cockpit allows one to move about without having to swing a table leaf down
  • The cockpit table was great because it lowered into a large sunbathing lounge
  • All lines are led aft so that the boat was a breeze to sail singlehanded (winches at helm stations and clutches all within reach)
  • Lines were covered so the decks were uncluttered and safer to traverse
  • Mainsheet system that was controlled at either helm so we didn’t have to traverse the cockpit to get at it
  • Jib tracks that allowed for extremely close to the wind points of sail
  • The helm stations were extremely comfortable and ergonomic (back cushions on the rails and enough space for my wife or daughters to sit next to me)
  • Vertical sail battens kept the sail well shaped and we had no problems furling it into the mast
  • Beautifully designed and finished saloon and staterooms (the ceilings are quite high and the rooms are full of light)
  • Fun to sail – although it had an extremely high freeboard, she tracked well in 12-15 knot winds
  • This is a sexy looking boat and along with the O38 are in my view, the only two mass production boats on the market that are revolutionary in their design
Although I see at least 2-3 O38s and dozens of other Oceanis sailboats out on the SF Bay each weekend, I’ve only seen one Vision (a 46) which I attribute to the fact that Bavaria doesn’t have a dealer here. Good luck with your tough choice.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:27   #602
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Beneteau 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twidget View Post
Our O41 is under construction. I was wondering if there was a similar site or thread that had information on the 41.

I am also keenly interested in the Oceanis 41. What was your motivation in choosing this one, new at that?
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Old 11-07-2015, 15:35   #603
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Re: Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by Fluer de Mer View Post
.. Also, because of the way the sail is wrapped around the in-mast drum, we've learned to favor furling on a starboard tack so that it doesn't rub around the mast slot lip. Lastly, we have both an electric and standard winch on the cabin top - we've learned to be extremely careful when using the electric winch because you can't 'feel' the tension increase when a jam is forming. We've been told that the electric winch has the potential of exacerbating a jam such that it is nearly impossible to pull out (and has the power to even pull the mast down). Our dealer recommended going with slow short bursts with the electric winch and not to take our eyes off the sail when grinding so that small problems that are forming can be seen as they happen before they become big ones.
Regarding the use of electric winches I have a considerable experience with them not with a furling main but with a big traditional one. It will not Jam the way a furling one can do but a several things can go wrong and you need to feel the power you are making before breaking something.

This is the way It works for me: I never close the line on the winch, just put two turns around it and pull it with a hand. If something gets stuck I can feel it immediately since the two turns work like a clutch: more power and the line just slides.
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Old 12-07-2015, 06:57   #604
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Re: Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by RKsailsolo View Post
I am also keenly interested in the Oceanis 41. What was your motivation in choosing this one, new at that?
Chartered one and loved it. The used ones we looked at were not far from new prices and we could not find the 3 cabin 2 head layout we liked. And frankly we just wanted a new boat.
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Old 13-08-2015, 14:58   #605
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Re: Beneteau 38

First time poster and longtime lurker on this thread – g’day!

I want to revisit the inverter issue, mentioned previously.

As I understand, the inverter converts DC power (from the batteries) to AC, to run devices needing AC. I’ve gleaned from the prior posts that the OEM inverter will only deliver a maximum of 700W, to power devices such as the microwave, TV, audio system, other electronics (nav?) etc - is that correct?

How many devices that need AC are capable of being powered on at the one time?

I assume use of the inverter to power AC devices is with the engine off, and just draining down the batteries?

Does it make any difference if the engine is on, in powering AC devices via the inverter? Or is the inverter the AC power delivery bottleneck?

Has anyone upgraded wiring for an upgraded inverter?

Does a generator overcome the need for an inverter? Is a GENSET available from Beneteau? Does an engine need to be running for the gen to delivery AC power?

Thanks.

PS. I live in the Pacific NW, but the wife and I get down to Florida (Punta Gorda) to see the in-laws now and then. We may retire in Sarasota and I would LOVE a 38 or 41 … Cheers!
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Old 13-08-2015, 16:17   #606
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Re: Beneteau 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWildDingo View Post
First time poster and longtime lurker on this thread – g’day!

I want to revisit the inverter issue, mentioned previously.

As I understand, the inverter converts DC power (from the batteries) to AC, to run devices needing AC. I’ve gleaned from the prior posts that the OEM inverter will only deliver a maximum of 700W, to power devices such as the microwave
Correct to this point...

Quote:
TV, audio system, other electronics (nav?) etc - is that correct?
These are all 12VDC and do not need the inverter. The only stock component that needs the inverter is the Microwave. A common addition that may need it is a watermaker or an Air Conditioner. An AC unit is too high of a load for an inverter and would require a genset.

Quote:
How many devices that need AC are capable of being powered on at the one time?
Depends on wattage, however the Microwave is 700 watts so if you're running it, you can't run anything else. Generally, a 700 watt inverter is not large enough to run multiple loads.

Quote:
I assume use of the inverter to power AC devices is with the engine off, and just draining down the batteries?
Correct.

Quote:
Does it make any difference if the engine is on, in powering AC devices via the inverter?
Only that the engine recharges the batteries. The alternator on the stock engine can generate 960 watts at 2000rpm, so it is capable of delivering more power than the inverter can run down. This is likely why the stock inverter is only 700 watts.

If you were to install an 1800 watt inverter (capable of running any 120VAC single load) then you could run down batteries at a rate 3X as fast as you can charge them (if you actually drew 1800 watts)

Quote:
Or is the inverter the AC power delivery bottleneck?
Not quite sure what you mean here, the inverter delivers 700 watts of 120VAC max. I suppose that's a bottleneck.

Quote:
Has anyone upgraded wiring for an upgraded inverter?
The inverter is located right next to the batteries. The only wiring that would need to be upgraded are the short connectors to the battery bank. The rest of the boat's AC stock wiring is already rated for maximum AC loads.

Quote:
Does a generator overcome the need for an inverter?
Yes. Gensets deliver AC power when running. We have a portable Honda EU2000 we use for this instead of an inverter. You can plug it into the shore power connector on deck and run it on the transom under the starboard helm.

Quote:
Is a GENSET available from Beneteau?
I'm pretty sure there is a genset option. However, it is likely less expensive to install your own. We use a portable Honda EU2000, which is the quietest generator available, and because it's portable we can use it when camping, to run the emergency fridge circuit in our house, and to run the AC on rental R/Vs. An advantage to installing a genset is that you can run it on diesel and not have to carry two fuels. Our Honda has been modified to run on propane, so we can run it off the boat's propane bottle. We've only done this once however, because we just don't need AC on the boat when underway.

Quote:
Does an engine need to be running for the gen to delivery AC power?
No. The genset runs on its own.

It's my opinion that the OEM inverter isn't worth the bother, and frankly there's no need for an inverter at all. Most electronics can be sourced in 12VDC versions including small microwave ovens, water-makers, and even air conditioners.

It's much cheaper to just use 12VDC equipment for everything and just use the boat's engine and the shore power charger to keep up with the loads, rather than pay for an inverter or a very costly generator set. Most people do enough motoring to keep their batteries topped-off--we certainly do.
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Old 13-08-2015, 18:53   #607
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Re: Beneteau 38

I had thought more systems were being run on AC on your boats. Guess not.

Is Air Conditioning an option on a Oceanis 38? Sounds like A/Cond can only be run on Shore Power AC?
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Old 13-08-2015, 20:50   #608
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Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by TheWildDingo View Post
I had thought more systems were being run on AC on your boats. Guess not.



Is Air Conditioning an option on a Oceanis 38? Sounds like A/Cond can only be run on Shore Power AC?

It is an option, as is a 6KVA diesel genset that can power it underway, in the two cabin version only. If you don't order the genset, then A/C can only be used with shore power.

Vastly less expensive to buy without and install aftermarket AC and genset if you decide you need it, or a 2nd alternator and a large enough inverter to drive the AC.


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Old 15-08-2015, 08:43   #609
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Re: Beneteau 38

We are at the back end of a several week family bareboat chartering trip in Scandinavia [beautiful peoples/cultures/sailing!] on two new boats. As an owner of a O38, I thought I’d share a few initial overall reflections on the Hanse 415 and Jeanneau SO409 we sailed. Both the Jeanneau and Hanse had some really good features, but the bottom line is that the O38 really is a revolutionary boat.
1. Let there be light! The lack of light below decks really stood out. I forgot how much more light the O38 allows in…it really is striking when compared to the other [larger] boats which suffer in comparison from very small hull and side windows and lots of bulkhead walls. To emphasize this point, my daughters kept calling the Jeanneau ‘the sarcophagus’
2. Twin rudders are better than one – full stop. The single rudders had noticeable weather helm in strong wind gusts and were sluggish to respond (although the Hanse steering was far superior to the Jeanneau). My wife compares the O38 steering to that of a Porsche, the Hanse like a BMW or MBenz, while the Jeanneau to her dad’s 1973 Oldsmobile wagon (We are actually being nicer here…it was shockingly bad).
3. The O38 is really really fast…faster than the bigger boats we sailed by significant margins…I’ll post more here when I get back to California, but I am certain that we will start seeing them posting better times that much larger cruiser/race, and dare I say, pure race boats.
4. The hard chine gives the O38 much more room down below…the aft cabins of both the longer Hanse and the Jeanneau were actually smaller than the ones in the O38 (see sarcophagus comment above).
5. The cockpits of the longer boats were considerably smaller/more cramped than the O38…I can actually lay down on the O38 cockpit bench, but not on the other boats.
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Old 29-08-2015, 21:26   #610
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Re: Beneteau 38

I understand the Oceanis 38 is designed primarily for coastal cruising, but what upgrades would need to be made for mild blue water cruising - for example some rough weather across the Gulf Stream (caught in a Nor'easter, caught in squalls, etc) ...

... mild ... not trans-ocean (i.e. not Pacific, not Atlantic), and not trying to turn it into a Hallberg-Rassy.
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Old 29-08-2015, 22:40   #611
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Re: Beneteau 38

Where did you get that understanding? Hull #1 just completed a year long circumnavigation of the North Atlantic. The boat is CE All-Ocean rated for 8 people and is as capable as any fiberglass fin keeled boat it's size of transoceanic passages.

Obviously it would need to be outfit for long-term cruising and upgraded to the owners' preferences regarding cruising sails and equipment as would any stock boat.

We've done numerous crossings of the San Pedro in heavy weather which it handles just fine. The Gulf Stream is not a problem and it will ride out a nor'easter as well.

It's interesting that the boat has a tendency to slam when going directly into weather in an F2, but by F3 the boat smooths out considerably in larger waves. It sheds water immediately and stays dry inside under all conditions we've so far encountered. All lines are led aft for complete control of the boat without leaving the safety of the cockpit.

I do worry about the very open stern in weather and would recommend both a tether and a solid tube installed across the transom when offshore in addition to the safety lines. I would also consider installing handholds as you see fit in the cabin, as it's quite wide, and replacing the square-edged door-handles; they're the only design fail I've discovered in my first year of owning hull #3.


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Old 29-08-2015, 22:45   #612
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Re: Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by TheWildDingo View Post
I understand the Oceanis 38 is designed primarily for coastal cruising, but what upgrades would need to be made for mild blue water cruising - for example some rough weather across the Gulf Stream (caught in a Nor'easter, caught in squalls, etc) ...

... mild ... not trans-ocean (i.e. not Pacific, not Atlantic), and not trying to turn it into a Hallberg-Rassy.

It would need more fuel, more water or a desalinator, solar panels, and a good dodger and bimini.
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Old 29-08-2015, 23:13   #613
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Re: Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Where did you get that understanding?
Good question.

[1] Reading many of the numerous "Production versus Blue Water" boat threads on CF ... of which many allude to production boats not being fit for blue water sailing.

[2] Not seeing any Bene's on, for example, John Neal’s Boats to Consider for Offshore Cruising (list at bottom of the page) - Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

[3] Weight differences between, for example a Bene (38 Cruiser - 12,195lb) and a Hallberg-Rassy (372 - 16,500lb) ,

[4] Prices differences between, for example, a Bene and a Hallberg-Rassy (cha-ching $$$).

Not looking to make this a "Production boat" versus 'Blue water boat' post, nor a Bene bashing post ...

And yes, I am aware of Bene circumnavigations, and the recent French 38 crossing the Atlantic ... Beneteau Ocean Atlantic Tour

I dont know if they were strictly OEM boats, or have been beefed up for blue water sailing. Regardless, my question being if additional outfitting would be required for mild blue water running.

(No, I don't own a Bene, but would like to own one when I move to FL).
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Old 02-09-2015, 17:59   #614
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Re: Beneteau 38

I see. Well, opinions here are CF (including mine) are worth what you pay for them. Most of the people engaged in debates about what constitutes a blue water sailor have only seen blue water outside their airplane window.

The stock boat requires additional equipment to be outfitted for long distance cruising as noted above, but there's no stiffening, stabilizing, or other changes to the stock hull.

You'll find you love it. It handles coastal and near offshore work easily, and it's fast enough under sail to make short work of even upwind passages. Prefer the roller furling main for its ability to balance the CE with the RF jib and for infinite reefing.


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Old 02-09-2015, 20:12   #615
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Re: Beneteau 38

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
Most of the people engaged in debates about what constitutes a blue water sailor have only seen blue water outside their airplane window.
Lol!

Not a bad sound bite. Might use that one ...
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