Bavaria Yachts....yay or nay?

[couchsailor]

G'day everyone,

This is my first post, so I apologise in advance if I'm asking questions that are well-trodden. I've read a lot of post regarding general advice for purchasing liveaboard cruisers, however, I was wondering if anyone had advice specifically on Bavaria yachts? After 10 years of living and working in Hong Kong, my wife and I are giving up the hustle, bustle and stress of the city, and spending a year or so cruising. We've sailed on and off for the last 3-4 years, so nothing compaired to most of you, but we're not completely useless. We've been searching yachtworld and theyachtmarket for years, and both of us seem to like Mid-2000's Bavarias. Anyone here ever owned one? Should I steer clear? They seem reasonably priced, however, if Asia has taught me anything, bargains are bargains for a reason.

Anyway, thanks for the help in advance. It's great having such a wealth of experience all in the one place.

Cheers

[2big2small]

They’re ok for anything you might reasonably want to consider doing for a year of cruising. You will feel a lot of hull flexing when sailing them in larger seas but that’s fine. Make sure you get a lightly used one though, not one that has already been around the world or the equivalent. Those are quite worn and “exhausted.”

[Pete7]

Very popular German yachts. We chartered one, a 32ft 2005 version before buying a Moody to see if a yacht would suit our needs. It did, easy to drive and park even in a tight marina thanks to the fin keel and blade rudder. Sailed very well even in light winds and was very well mannered yacht. We nearly bought it but the cost was just beyond our budget.

To be honest I don't think you will go far wrong with any of the European yachts.

Pete

[couchsailor]

Thanks for the response guys! I Probably should have noted that eventually, we'd like to build up to taking it across the Pacific. Understandably there are much better bluewater boats on the market, however, dropping half a million on a boat just isn't within our reach yet. The bavarias seemed like a good combination of livability/sturdiness/price.

[Island Time O25]

A friend was for many years a maintenance manager for a local busy sailing club with a few Bavarias between 36' and 45' I think. Says as is from the factory they're OK for coastal hopping but would need to be extensively retrofitted for any serious offshore travel or even coastal travel for that matter. Such as larger tankage, beefier rigging, etc.

So unless the ones you'd be looking at have been beefed up I'd look for an older model of another more suitable brand in the same price range. Also keep in mind that these entry level brands - Bavaria, Hanse, etc. are the main staple of sailing clubs and charter companies and get constantly beaten up but the maintenance is far from constant or up to par.

[HiAndDri]

Plenty of unmodified Bavarias cross oceans without problems. 8 sailed the 2017 ARC.
As 2big2small says, capable of what the OP wants to do though not the ideal choice.

[SofiaB]

Suggest this Sit with recent poll:

http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,20.0.html

I own a very stiff Bavaria Vision 46. Your right: a lot of boat for the money. Very impressed with performance and stability under rough conditions.

If you like modern, bright, large living spaces then this is a great option. If you like classic, dark, tight living spaces, not so much.

After 2 years we love ours. Holding up extremely well looking the same like it’s one month old. Don’t be fooled that paying a lot more will get you a better boat when comparing a Bavaria.

[SofiaB]

Originally Posted by HiAndDri

Plenty of unmodified Bavarias cross oceans without problems. 8 sailed the 2017 ARC.
As 2big2small says, capable of what the OP wants to do though not the ideal choice.

To add to blue water debate: http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,1990.0.html

I would never do this as I sail solo but I’m confident that the boat would dig in a fight through the conditions. Cape Horn with mid 2000s Bavaria.

[2big2small]

Originally Posted by SofiaB

Suggest this Sit with recent poll:

Buy a Bavaria?

I own a very stiff Bavaria Vision 46. Your right: a lot of boat for the money. Very impressed with performance and stability under rough conditions.

If you like modern, bright, large living spaces then this is a great option. If you like classic, dark, tight living spaces, not so much.

After 2 years we love ours. Holding up extremely well looking the same like it’s one month old. Don’t be fooled that paying a lot more will get you a better boat when comparing a Bavaria.

I like the Bavaria Vision 46 and 42 (or is it 43?) a lot but they are not from the mid 2000 generation and they are supposed to be high end (whatever that means). But yes, very good interior and cockpit layouts, very liveable, but still very highly priced on the used market. They need a few more years to come down in price to a good price/used quality ratio. They aren’t ripe yet. ;-)

[boatman61]

I can only comment on the under 40ftrs.. Rather have a Bene, better planned layout and roomier galley.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by SofiaB

Suggest this Sit with recent poll:



http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php/topic,20.0.html



I own a very stiff Bavaria Vision 46. Your right: a lot of boat for the money. Very impressed with performance and stability under rough conditions.



If you like modern, bright, large living spaces then this is a great option. If you like classic, dark, tight living spaces, not so much.



After 2 years we love ours. Holding up extremely well looking the same like it’s one month old. Don’t be fooled that paying a lot more will get you a better boat when comparing a Bavaria.

That’s good to hear- my perception on charter of a vision 46- quite a bit of shuddering forward in seas. And the edges of laminate which was everywhere in cabin sole was lifting. But maybe I’m just extra picky or this 6 month old charter boat was already beat up?
But interior was spacious, big storage in bilge is great though galley level storage limited. And that cockpit! Wow !

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

A friend was for many years a maintenance manager for a local busy sailing club with a few Bavarias between 36' and 45' I think. Says as is from the factory they're OK for coastal hopping but would need to be extensively retrofitted for any serious offshore travel or even coastal travel for that matter. Such as larger tankage, beefier rigging, etc.

So unless the ones you'd be looking at have been beefed up I'd look for an older model of another more suitable brand in the same price range. Also keep in mind that these entry level brands - Bavaria, Hanse, etc. are the main staple of sailing clubs and charter companies and get constantly beaten up but the maintenance is far from constant or up to par.

This. Coastal, "fun" sailing, sure. But offshore? I'd look for a 25 year old Beneteau or Dufour that had gone through a complete rerig and refit and then the owner died. While I am being harsh, I'm not trying to be funny. I've eyeballed post-2011 Hanses and Dufours in low-angle winter sunlight and you can see the core voids and the incomplete tabbings. It's a symptom of beancounters, not sailors, being in charge. If it's a brand favoured by charter fleets, consider a make that isn't.

HR, Swan, Moody, Oyster, Bristol, Dehler, Tartan, Niagaras, even older Sabres and C&Cs, etc. ... quite a few come to mind. I'd rather go to sea in a well-maintained older mid-sized yacht (25 years or more) that had been maintained and serviced than a newer beautiful condo-style lightweight boat that had questionable construction details, insufficient handholds, no tie-downs on the sole hatches, no proper sea berths. Offshore is a different place, and boat show beauties have not tended to acknowledge this for a long time.

EDIT: I've sailed on a mid-2000s Bavaria 40 and found it a little touchy and didn't like the swept-back spreaders. It was bright and comfortable below, certainly, as most production boats are today. But "tight below and fewer big open Lexan hatches on deck" is a better course for ocean passagemaking. Again, budget and the need for secure stowage dictates a lot of this, but most ocean sailing is (ideally) with the wind aft of the beam, and some of the newer rigs are less good at that (those spreaders, plus in-mast furling, plus no staysail) than are others. Distances in the Pacific are longer than any weather window I know of. "Does it heave to/can I run off in a fully developed seaway?" thus is a useful question to ask. One way to see is to offer to help deliver the sort of boat you are interested in. If it doesn't kill your desire to sail completely, you'll get a sack full of experience and plenty of real-life data points.

[bck73]

I've owned a Bavaria 34CR for 10 years now great cursing yacht with plenty room and real wood finish not the (MFI cheap look)

If I was to go sailing for a year I would look for a Bavaria 42 CC they are a great cursing yacht but getting a good one is like finding hens teeth lol.

Mike

[LLCoolDave]

I sailed on a 2006 Bavaria 46 for two months in 2016, eventually crossing the Atlantic to the Caribbean. This was an ex charter but well maintained.
We a had a couple storms with 50kt winds and I felt very safe. The boat did tend to shudder when getting above 7kts. I did think the galley was too open with not many places to brace yourself while cooking underway.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

but would need to be extensively retrofitted for any serious offshore travel or even coastal travel for that matter. Such as larger tankage, beefier rigging, etc.

I think the German Engineers will have done their sums when designing each model. In addition the large charter fleet operators will be looking for yachts that don't have lots of down time. This will also apply to the Beneteau and Jeanneau yachts.

Markj on here is on his second lap with an ex charter Beneteau 39. They had to buy some sails after 25,000 miles when the first set which weren't new when they set off fell apart.

The key is as he says, sail the oceans in season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0400LkO_Lqg