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Old 09-01-2015, 13:59   #166
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Screen wipes required.
Again Weavis?!
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Old 09-01-2015, 14:06   #167
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Again Weavis?!
I have a warped sense of humour....
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Old 09-01-2015, 14:13   #168
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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I have a warped sense of humour....
Always appreciated around here!
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Old 09-01-2015, 15:21   #169
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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And your point obviously is that a Benni first 40.7 is a much stronger and sea kindly boat than a steel cruising boat??? Polux even for you that is a ridiculous apology to make!
As usually I try to talk bout facts and try to stay out of subjective territory. In what regards what I said, it was a fact that they survived a storm that sunk a steel cruising boat.

Being of steel says nothing about that particular boat stability or seaworthiness, only that will be more resistant in what regards impacts with containers and other floating objects than a fiberglass boat.

The First 40.7 has a very good stability that can be used to go fast or to sustain bad weather with reduced or no sail. I only pointed that because there is a tendency to consider that performance boats are less apt for bluewater sailing. In fact it was not me that had made that association but the skipper of that First 40.7 (at the time) as a way to say that his boat was very seaworthy, or at least it was his opinion after having sailed half the world in it, including the Horn and Antarctic waters.
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Old 09-01-2015, 17:27   #170
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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As usually I try to talk bout facts and try to stay out of subjective territory. In what regards what I said, it was a fact that they survived a storm that sunk a steel cruising boat.

Being of steel says nothing about that particular boat stability or seaworthiness, only that will be more resistant in what regards impacts with containers and other floating objects than a fiberglass boat.

The First 40.7 has a very good stability that can be used to go fast or to sustain bad weather with reduced or no sail. I only pointed that because there is a tendency to consider that performance boats are less apt for bluewater sailing. In fact it was not me that had made that association but the skipper of that First 40.7 (at the time) as a way to say that his boat was very seaworthy, or at least it was his opinion after having sailed half the world in it, including the Horn and Antarctic waters.
I have read this BS for years. So and so was in the same storm and did better than so and so. They might have been in the same storm but exactly where in the same storm? Beside each other? If so I will accept your view of the world but they rarely if ever are. During the Queens Birthday storm between NZ and Tonga there were lots of boats out there experiencing all sorts of different seas depending exactly where they were. All the boats had a hell of a ride but some boats went to hell and back because of the exact location they were in. Remember the basics of where you try to position yourself in a Hurricane to avoid the wind speed from the Hurricane as well as the forward track of the storm which adds huge to the wind in that quadrant? You don't all get the same treatment when you are in the same storm. By the way the one boat that was lost in that storm had windows kinda like you see in modern boats as in lots of them and surface mounted. An American couple lost their drag device and came down the wave so fast that they pitch poled and then rolled 360 degrees, quite the ride and quite the pictures showing the mast still attached completely wrapped around the boat. This was a rare one for sure that was not forecast and caught a lot of boats by surprise, its times like this that you hope you have made a good decision on the type of boat you purchased for cruising.
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Old 09-01-2015, 17:49   #171
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I have read this BS for years. So and so was in the same storm and did better than so and so. They might have been in the same storm but exactly where in the same storm? Beside each other? If so I will accept your view of the world but they rarely if ever are. During the Queens Birthday storm between NZ and Tonga there were lots of boats out there experiencing all sorts of different seas depending exactly where they were. All the boats had a hell of a ride but some boats went to hell and back because of the exact location they were in. Remember the basics of where you try to position yourself in a Hurricane to avoid the wind speed from the Hurricane as well as the forward track of the storm which adds huge to the wind in that quadrant? You don't all get the same treatment when you are in the same storm. By the way the one boat that was lost in that storm had windows kinda like you see in modern boats as in lots of them and surface mounted. An American couple lost their drag device and came down the wave so fast that they pitch poled and then rolled 360 degrees, quite the ride and quite the pictures showing the mast still attached completely wrapped around the boat. This was a rare one for sure that was not forecast and caught a lot of boats by surprise, its times like this that you hope you have made a good decision on the type of boat you purchased for cruising.
And nice to have that margin for error that goes along with that, even if you already have a lot of experience & confidence in your seamanship skills
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Old 09-01-2015, 18:31   #172
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I have read this BS for years. So and so was in the same storm and did better than so and so. They might have been in the same storm but exactly where in the same storm? Beside each other? If so I will accept your view of the world but they rarely if ever are. During the Queens Birthday storm between NZ and Tonga there were lots of boats out there experiencing all sorts of different seas depending exactly where they were. All the boats had a hell of a ride but some boats went to hell and back because of the exact location they were in. Remember the basics of where you try to position yourself in a Hurricane to avoid the wind speed from the Hurricane as well as the forward track of the storm which adds huge to the wind in that quadrant? You don't all get the same treatment when you are in the same storm. By the way the one boat that was lost in that storm had windows kinda like you see in modern boats as in lots of them and surface mounted. An American couple lost their drag device and came down the wave so fast that they pitch poled and then rolled 360 degrees, quite the ride and quite the pictures showing the mast still attached completely wrapped around the boat. This was a rare one for sure that was not forecast and caught a lot of boats by surprise, its times like this that you hope you have made a good decision on the type of boat you purchased for cruising.
What a hell is that all about? I only said that the skipper of that First 40.7 was caught in a big storm on Antarctic waters and that he said that he had fared better than other sailboats in the region and that a steel sailboat had gone under. Not any judgment for my part, just facts and information.
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Old 09-01-2015, 18:40   #173
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

[QUOTE=Polux;1720570]What a hell is that all about? I only said that the skipper of that First 40.7 was caught in a big storm on Antarctic waters and that he said that he had fared better than other sailboats in the region and that a steel sailboat had gone under. Not any judgment for my part, just facts and information.[/QUOTE

The meaning of "fact" is ..a truth known by actual experience or observation. You didn't experience it and you didn't observe it so its not a fact, its what we commonly call third party information and its this type of information most people don't pay much attention to.
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Old 09-01-2015, 19:10   #174
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
....
The meaning of "fact" is ..a truth known by actual experience or observation. You didn't experience it and you didn't observe it so its not a fact, its what we commonly call third party information and its this type of information most people don't pay much attention to.
That's becoming weird and I will stop here. So for you WWII was not a fact because you did not experience it?

A fact is something that is documented. The skipper of the boat wrote what I said and have been on that storm, and the steel boat really sunk and other boats were in trouble. What is difference being it experienced by me or him? I am quite sure he is a better and much more experienced sailor than me and therefore his testimony regarding how his boat performed will be more valid than my opinion, if I had been there.
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Old 09-01-2015, 19:11   #175
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

[QUOTE=robert sailor;1720575]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
What a hell is that all about? I only said that the skipper of that First 40.7 was caught in a big storm on Antarctic waters and that he said that he had fared better than other sailboats in the region and that a steel sailboat had gone under. Not any judgment for my part, just facts and information.[/QUOTE

The meaning of "fact" is ..a truth known by actual experience or observation. You didn't experience it and you didn't observe it so its not a fact, its what we commonly call third party information and its this type of information most people don't pay much attention to.
From your post #1:
Now here's the deal, "no bashing please", just fair concepts and comments as to why you think this...I'll not involve myself. Smack you might have some insights for American sailors and Polux I'll bet you have some thoughts about this as you have owned a Bavaria.

Have you changed your mind...?
Seems so...
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Old 09-01-2015, 19:34   #176
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

[QUOTE=KnuckleDragger;1720605]
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post

From your post #1:
Now here's the deal, "no bashing please", just fair concepts and comments as to why you think this...I'll not involve myself. Smack you might have some insights for American sailors and Polux I'll bet you have some thoughts about this as you have owned a Bavaria.

Have you changed your mind...?
Seems so...

Yes you are right I changed my mind
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Old 09-01-2015, 19:36   #177
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

[QUOTE=robert sailor;1720622]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger View Post


Yes you are right I changed my mind
OK! Appreciate the honesty!!!
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Old 09-01-2015, 23:20   #178
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
The meaning of "fact" is ..a truth known by actual experience or observation. You didn't experience it and you didn't observe it so its not a fact, its what we commonly call third party information and its this type of information most people don't pay much attention to.
But "I read it on facebook" is OK?
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:50   #179
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

Let's get things a bit back on track

For those old enough to a member of my generation, remember when "made in Japan" waas synonomous with bad quality? And whenever something was of bad quality folks would comment "Oh, made in Japan was it?"

I also seem to remember when the american car industry had the same label attached to it "American cars are sh*t"

Par to the issue reveloving around Hunters and Bavarias is that they seem to push the envelope regarding boat design and boat manufacturing.

Americans did this from time to time - remember the Clipper Ships? Fastest ship on the sea inthose days but when they were first launched most other seafaring nations said they wouldn't be able to withstand the storms.

Or the first Americas Cup racers - the brits didn't believe that those boats could withstand the loads they would experience during the races (hmmm- something about a 135 year dominance in that race comes to mind)

so yes - the production boat manufacturers, Hunter, bavaria, benejeene and Hansa etc are experimenting with design (let's not forget that modern design technology have moved forward from the days when a bostbuilder relied only on experience - today material stresses etc can be calculated quite closely).

Is this bad? no. Without this type of "thinking outside the box" we wouldn't have the boats we have today. Will there be mistakes - yep.

I'm reminded of the joke:

Two astronauts are sitting inthe capsule and as the countdown nears -0- the one says to the ohter:

"Doesn't it make you nervous to think you are sittiing on top of 10 billion dollars of "low bid"
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Old 10-01-2015, 05:03   #180
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Re: Bavaria or Hunter Bashing

Further to this discussion. Many have strong feellings egarding modern production boats and the strength of their keels or hull. Whilst the boat is this video is a Dehler and not a Hunter or Bavaria, the basic keel designs are not that different.

The video is in german (unfortunately, but you do not need the commentary.)

This pretty much shows what a modern boat can take.

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