bananaing after rerig, keel boat leaking?

[johnnyj]

Hello, I have noticed that sea water is making it's way into the bilge of my boat. I've done a lot of searching around from where it's coming from and I'm pretty sure it is making it's way up the aft most bolt of the bolt on keel. I can't really get at the bolt to see for sure because it is buried inside of a bulkhead, but I'm pretty sure that's where it's coming from.
I dove under to inspect the seal around where the keel meets the hull and the forward and aft edges of the seam have maybe pulled away. The lateral edges are fine and the keel is still solid as a rock on there. Have talked to someone and he mentioned bananaing of the sailboat when rigging happens and it can pull the hull in a U shape, breaking that seal.
The water is coming in very slowly, but I'm afraid of the bolts corroding.
Anyone have experience with this? How long will those bolts hold up? What should I do?

Right now I'm anchored in TCI and plan on making my way to Puerto Rico. I have talked to the one haul out place here and the guy said I can do work on the boat myself and he can help lift the boat up and put it back on so I can reseal if that's what it needs. Might require a little more professionalism tho. Also have contacted a place in Fajardo and they said they can do it, but that means they have to do it $$. Might end up putting the boat on the hard here, waiting for hurricane season to pass then sailing it to PR to get it done, if it is this bananaing problem

[psk125]

You don't know how long the keelboats will hold up. You don't say what kind of boat it is or how old, which might be helpful. If they are leaking it may be a question of taking the keel off and re-bedding the whole thing, rather than just slapping something over or into the joint. You don't want this: https://assets.publishing.service.go...ort_8_2015.pdf

happening to you.

[Jim Cate]

You mention "rerig" in the title of t he thread. Perhaps whoever tuned the rig after the service overdid things a bit, and that is the reason the leak began. This assumes that prior to the rerig there was no leak.

Consider unloading the back stay a bit and see if it improves things.

Jim

[johnnyj]

It’s a 2014 jeanneau 44DS. I bought it in Annapolis and got it surveyed while on the hard. The guy said it was a super clean like new boat. Had it trucked to Florida from there and yes probably when the riggers did everything in Florida, probably overdid it. So I’ve had it since Aug 2017, making it 2 years possibly. Haven’t really noticed the leak because of the auto bilge, but now that I’m really cruising... I notice

[johnnyj]

The Rafiki boat I just came across today while doing research... I definitely want to do this right

[johnnyj]

I don’t have a tensioner as I’m in TCI, I doubt any place here does either. I’ve never done anything with standing rigging before. U think I should try what u said to at least make it a quick fix before getting to Samana or Fajardo?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by johnnyj

I don’t have a tensioner as I’m in TCI, I doubt any place here does either. I’ve never done anything with standing rigging before. U think I should try what u said to at least make it a quick fix before getting to Samana or Fajardo?

You don't need any special stuff to make this check. Just loosen the rigging screw on the backstay a few turns and see if the leak diminishes. You will get a bit more forestay sag but that isn't the end o the world. Lots of racers slack the backstay for every off the wind leg of a race, re-tighten for the windward legs.

I'm not familiar with your sailing area so can't comment on your query about the passage.

Jim

[GILow]

The boat was trucked. Right there is more likely the cause of problems, particularly as the OP has noted that the problem may have been disguised by the bilge pumps or infrequent use.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by johnnyj

It’s a 2014 jeanneau 44DS. I bought it in Annapolis and got it surveyed while on the hard. The guy said it was a super clean like new boat. Had it trucked to Florida from there and yes probably when the riggers did everything in Florida, probably overdid it. So I’ve had it since Aug 2017, making it 2 years possibly. Haven’t really noticed the leak because of the auto bilge, but now that I’m really cruising... I notice

Hi, johnnyj,

Had you considered turning off the automatic bilge pump, so you can really learn how much water is coming in?

Easing off the back stay a bit, like Jim suggested, is a good place to start, but sailing to PR with a leaky boat would not be peaceful, for me. So, first, see how much water is coming in per hour, and think about what you'd do to stop it under way if the water flow increases. If it stops when the backstay is eased off, wonderful.

For an emergency patch, perhaps you carry some underwater epoxy? If you can get hold of some Splash Zone, or similar, you can apply it to the places on the keel that are gaping, and get some relief.

Probably what happened is that the riggers did all the rigging on land, with the weight of the boat on the keel, then launched. The keel then sought the center of the earth. Normally, the rig should be tuned in the water, just a preliminary set up on land, proper tuning after launch. [When we had a rig replaced on our previous boat, the rigger came for a sail for us to do the final tuning, with repeated tacking, till he was satisfied it was right.] My guess would be someone tried to cut a corner there, and it did not work out to your benefit.

It would be conservative to expect an automatic bilge pump to fail at some inconvenient time.

Ann

[johnnyj]

[QUOTE=Jim Cate;2943353]You don't need any special stuff to make this check. Just loosen the rigging screw on the backstay a few turns and see if the leak diminishes. You will get a bit more forestay sag but that isn't the end o the world. Lots of racers slack the backstay for every off the wind leg of a race, re-tighten for the windward legs.

I'm not familiar with your sailing area so can't comment on your query about the passage.

Jim[/QUO

It's prevailing E ESE winds and I'm headed right into them

[johnnyj]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, johnnyj,

Had you considered turning off the automatic bilge pump, so you can really learn how much water is coming in?

Easing off the back stay a bit, like Jim suggested, is a good place to start, but sailing to PR with a leaky boat would not be peaceful, for me. So, first, see how much water is coming in per hour, and think about what you'd do to stop it under way if the water flow increases. If it stops when the backstay is eased off, wonderful.

For an emergency patch, perhaps you carry some underwater epoxy? If you can get hold of some Splash Zone, or similar, you can apply it to the places on the keel that are gaping, and get some relief.

Probably what happened is that the riggers did all the rigging on land, with the weight of the boat on the keel, then launched. The keel then sought the center of the earth. Normally, the rig should be tuned in the water, just a preliminary set up on land, proper tuning after launch. [When we had a rig replaced on our previous boat, the rigger came for a sail for us to do the final tuning, with repeated tacking, till he was satisfied it was right.] My guess would be someone tried to cut a corner there, and it did not work out to your benefit.

It would be conservative to expect an automatic bilge pump to fail at some inconvenient time.

Ann

I think u are right with everything Ann.
I've turned off the bilge and dried everything; shop vac, towels, and all. The water is barely barely creeping from that hidden keel bolt, I believe. And it's barely, like if I left it alone it would take a couple weeks to fill a five gallon bucket. I wouldn't leave the boat alone in the water, but if the bilge failed, it wouldn't be a problem in this instance. Also I have a back up.
Is this a repair that requires a pro, or can I pull it apart, shave the old sealant off, apply new stuff and lay the hull back onto the bolts? That is if the bolts all check out

[MartinR]

Try some very fine sawdust in the water. This might actually fix the leak. You have to get the sawdust in relatively dry condition close to the place of the leak. This is then sucked into the leak and will expand.

Not a permanent fix, but worth a try.

The permanent repair does not require a pro, but you need to drop the keel, which can be costly.

[johnnyj]

Would dropping the keel be as simple as lifting the boat, making a frame for the keel to stay vertical when disassembled, scraping the old sealant, reapplying new and dropping the boat back down on the keel and bolts? Is there any intense measuring or micrometer work?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by johnnyj

Would dropping the keel be as simple as lifting the boat, making a frame for the keel to stay vertical when disassembled, scraping the old sealant, reapplying new and dropping the boat back down on the keel and bolts? Is there any intense measuring or micrometer work?

You’ll most likely either need to remove the rig, or at the very least slack everything (my gut says remove so the keel less boat doesn’t capsize on the stands).

Also when re-attaching the keel it should be squared to the hull, both fore aft and side to side. Serious cases I’ve seen have involved dropping, cleaning, caking with epoxy filler, mating and squaring, dropping, prepping, and then attaching/sealing.

[bigman1]

I would go with Jim Cates advice and slacken off the rear stay.This is no help to you,but my preference in keels are the long keel with inboard ballast type,belt and braces all the way.Hope you come to a good conclusion.Ronnie.