Baja Bash / Hunter 45 Center Cockpit

[Augi]

PLEASE ONLY COMMENT IF YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE DESCRIBED.

I would like to know from some one, if they care comments, that has done the Baja Bash multiple times in 45ish ft vessels that are considered "true blue water boats" and at least once in a Hunter 45 Center Cockpit.

If yes, can you describe the difference in the experience between a Hunter 45 Center Cockpit and the other vessels you did the Baja Bash on?

There is a bias against Hunter's in general and especially on this website versus boats that are considered "true blue water" boats that cost 2 to 3 times what a comparable size Hunter costs.

Do you think you were taking more risk going in Hunter 45 center cockpit versus than in the "true blue water boat" comparable size assuming both boats are well maintained and of similar age, equal competent crews. etc.

Was there a big difference in comfort?

Was the Hunter worse for the wear versus the "true blue water boat"?

Was the crew on the Hunter worse for the wear than the true " blue water boat".

[sailorboy1]

gee stir the pot some more

odds are you're not going to find someone that meets your reply rules

[Augi]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

gee stir the pot some more

odds are you're not going to find someone that meets your reply rules

I knew it would be a "pot stirrer". That is why I included the reply rules. If no one comments that is OK.

I think I pretty much know what the perceived trade offs are that have been propagated by people that have never sailed on a Hunter 45 Center Cockpit or maybe went on a day sail once on one or toured one at a boat show and has never done the Baja Bash. I know the conventional wisdom about "true blue water boats" that are heavier, have full keels, are more "stout and sea kindly", offer more ability to adjust sails to improve comfort etc. I can find that all over the the internet or on previous threads here.

I have read about the negative perception of Hunters from people that agree with the negative perception and those that don't.

I am asking because I am going to do the Baja Bash once a year on the boat I buy, sail the boat in the Channel islands and the Sea of Cortez. I am a newbie but have some limited experience. I know what it is like to go to weather against short period oncoming waves. But I have never done that over a period of as many days as would be required to do the Baja Bash.

If some one has done the Baja Bash in multiple times in Hunter 45 Center Cockpit but never in any other boat, it would be great to hear there comments. Although most have a positive bias towards there own boats. Just like many have a bias about going outside of the harbor in anything but an Oyster or Halberg Rassy.

[Adelie]

You included "Reply Requests", the only rules here are in the "Rules" tab at the top of every forum page.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Adelie

You included "Reply Requests", the only rules here are in the "Rules" tab at the top of every forum page.

Thanks for that. Of course, anyone can reply.

The response rules I posted are rhetorical in nature. The rules help express where I am coming from. The conventional wisdom that can be found here and all over the internet about production sailboats versus "true blue water sailboats" from both sides does not need to be rehashed. If some one wants to rehash all that, that is OK. But that is not what I am asking.

I am specifically addressing doing the Baja Bash once a year, and encountering some difficult conditions in the Channel Islands that could come up unexpectedly in specific production sail boat vs. "true blue water sailboat". I am not going to sail out into the Channel islands if difficult conditions are predicted. I am going to pick weather windows when doing the Baja Bash. I am not a masochist. I don't have anything to prove.

If some one has done the Baja Bash in 45ish ft Beneteau, Bavaria, Hunter etc and a number of times in a similar size "true blue water boat" like a Halberg Russy, Oyster, Hans Christian, etc, their comments about the comparison would be greatly appreciated.

I am interested in hearing from some one one that has a lot of first hand experience that addresses the trade offs between the two types of boats described specifically for my intended use.

[skipmac]

I'm not quite sure why you consider doing the Baja Bash to be the only sail that would qualify for judging a boat's qualities. There are plenty of routes that are every bit as tough or more so than the Bash.


I have sailed a Hunter 45 but not in the Baja Bash so guess I can't help you.

[Adelie]

He’s picked the Baja bash because it follows the Baja Ha Ha which is a local rally/cruise from where I assume he lives (LA) down to Cabo San Lucas.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I'm not quite sure why you consider doing the Baja Bash to be the only sail that would qualify for judging a boat's qualities. There are plenty of routes that are every bit as tough or more so than the Bash.


I have sailed a Hunter 45 but not in the Baja Bash so guess I can't help you.

Thanks for your comment.

As noted in my posts, the reason the Baja Bash was mentioned is that is the toughest bit of sailing I plan to do along with exploring the Channel islands.

I did not say in my post that the Baja Bash was the be all test of sailboat.

I find it interesting, and humorous that when newbie's post on this forum the more experienced sailors frequently claim that they don't have enough info to answer and the implication is the newbie OP is an idiot.

Or when I post a question that is a very specific, I then get response with a negative connotation implying my question is stupid.

In the end these type of forums are a type of Rorschach test. Very entertaining indeed.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Adelie

He’s picked the Baja bash because it follows the Baja Ha Ha which is a local rally/cruise from where I assume he lives (LA) down to Cabo San Lucas.

Yes. I have a specific use as described in my post. I plan to move the boat each year, back and forth between Channels Islands Harbor(Oxnard, Ca) and San Carlos Nuevo Guaymas Sonora Mexico.

I am trying to be very specific to avoid the rehash of the production boat vs. "true blue water" boat discussion. That discussion can be found all over the internet and on this site.


An excellent general discussion of the topic of production boats versus "true blue water" boats or what are the limits of production boats can be found here:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruis...-limits-5.html

[Jim Cate]

Augi, I fear that your very specific subject group is vanishingly small, so the specific answer that you seek is unlikely to appear.

Posters from outside your group are trying to help. You are free to ignore them if you wish, but castigating them only stirs the pot and stimulates others to sound off off topic.

As to your query, it sounds like you won't be subject to a time specific calendar on your return trips, and that freedom will have more to do with the difficulty of the bash than the boat specifics. With time to pick wx, and to stop along the way to avoid the stronger NWlies, folks make the trip happily in all sorts of boats. If constrained by schedules or impatience, all yottie sized boats will take a hiding. Further, windward ability, or the lack of it, will impact how the trip goes, and windward ability isn't the forte of many so called BWBs. Ability to motor upwind for long distances is another characteristic that affects the Bash (if one chooses to approach it as a motor trip) and that isn't always associated with BWBs either, whilst many modern coastal cruiser types have large motors and adequate tankage for the Bash.

I can't speak to the Bash from experience. I've done the southbound trip a couple of times but then continued SW rather than return to Calif. For those trips and for all of my cruising I've chosen performance oriented fin keel moderate to light displacement vessels and not regretted the decision after quite a lot of blue water miles. I see no reason that your Hunter will not serve you well enough. Whether it will do so better or worse than some arbitrary BWB is kinda hard to guess... and guessing is what I think you are limited to!

Good luck with your decision, and don't be hard on folks who are trying to help out as best they can.

Jim

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Augi, I fear that your very specific subject group is vanishingly small, so the specific answer that you seek is unlikely to appear.

Posters from outside your group are trying to help. You are free to ignore them if you wish, but castigating them only stirs the pot and stimulates others to sound off off topic.

As to your query, it sounds like you won't be subject to a time specific calendar on your return trips, and that freedom will have more to do with the difficulty of the bash than the boat specifics. With time to pick wx, and to stop along the way to avoid the stronger NWlies, folks make the trip happily in all sorts of boats. If constrained by schedules or impatience, all yottie sized boats will take a hiding. Further, windward ability, or the lack of it, will impact how the trip goes, and windward ability isn't the forte of many so called BWBs. Ability to motor upwind for long distances is another characteristic that affects the Bash (if one chooses to approach it as a motor trip) and that isn't always associated with BWBs either, whilst many modern coastal cruiser types have large motors and adequate tankage for the Bash.

I can't speak to the Bash from experience. I've done the southbound trip a couple of times but then continued SW rather than return to Calif. For those trips and for all of my cruising I've chosen performance oriented fin keel moderate to light displacement vessels and not regretted the decision after quite a lot of blue water miles. I see no reason that your Hunter will not serve you well enough. Whether it will do so better or worse than some arbitrary BWB is kinda hard to guess... and guessing is what I think you are limited to!

Good luck with your decision, and don't be hard on folks who are trying to help out as best they can.

Jim

As to my specific question it is perfectly understandable if no one within the tight parameters I imposed has anything to offer. That is better than a rehash of the production boat vs. "true blue water" boat discussion. That has been well covered here and elsewhere.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

gee stir the pot some more

odds are you're not going to find someone that meets your reply rules

He just found someone.

We sailed down the California coast from San Fransicko to Long beach quite safely on our 1998 Hunter 450 back in 2009, an uneventful trip except that I was quite seasick from the boat motion. We also spent two years sailing the Southern California coast including the Channel Islands on the Hunter.

If you plan well and watch the weather, you shouldn’t have any problems sailing your Hunter from Southern California down to Baja, the boat is made for comfortable coastal cruising, which is what you’ll be doing. Is it a “blue water boat”? Definitely not, but the Hunter 450 will take you anywhere you want to go in safety along the coast, island hopping or in the Med. In unsheltered anchorages, the Hunter 450 will rock and roll quite badly due to its relative light weight, shallow draft and high freeboard, but this is also true for other boats of similar design.

Have fun doing the HaHa and the Bash and don’t worry... you’ll be fine.

Note: We now own Oysters, so I think I’m qualified to answer your questions. Does the boat you’re looking at have a Profurl boom? If so, it’s most likely our former boat.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

He just found someone.

We sailed down the California coast from San Fransicko to Long beach quite safely in our Hunter 450 back in 2010, an uneventful trip except that I was quite seasick from the boat motion.

If you plan well and watch the weather, you shouldn’t have any problems sailing your Hunter from Southern California down to Baja, the boat is made for comfortable coastal cruising, which is what you’ll be doing. Is it a “blue water boat”? Definitely not, but the Hunter 450 will take you anywhere you want to go in safety along the coast, island hopping or in the Med. In unsheltered anchorages, the Hunter 450 will rock and roll quite badly due to its relative light weight and high freeboard, but this is also true for other boats of similar design.

Have fun doing the HaHa and don’t worry... you’ll be fine.

Ahhh, Ken, you might re-read his posts. He is asking about the return trip northward ie the"Baja Bash", not the easy down wind slide of the Ha-Ha.

Jim

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahhh, Ken, you might re-read his posts. He is asking about the return trip northward ie the"Baja Bash", not the easy down wind slide of the Ha-Ha.

Jim

He’ll be fine if he watches the weather and hops from marina to marina up the coast and doesn’t try to do it all at once. If I remember correctly, the Hunter 450 carries 100 gallons of diesel and 200 gallons of water, so selecting the right times to motor north if necessary shouldn’t be an issue. Mornings and overnight tend to be calm.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

He’ll be fine if he watches the weather and hops from marina to marina up the coast and doesn’t try to do it all at once. If I remember correctly, the Hunter 450 carries 100 gallons of diesel and 200 gallons of water, so selecting the right times to motor north if necessary shouldn’t be an issue. Mornings and overnight tend to be calm.

Marinas on the Baja Pacific coast??? Surely you jest, Ken.

Apparently you have the same amount of experience in sailing a Hunter 45 UP the Baja coast as the rest of us... like NONE. But as I said upthread, if not constrained by time, and willingness to stop (there are some anchorages along the way) he should be fine, just as you say.

Jim