Bad Market - Good Negotiation Strategies ?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Billy Higgins

Is there website anyone may know of that can chase down the VIN? (vessel identification number). Not just the make and year info, but maybe determine who owns the boat, if there is a mortgage, prior owners, damage. Just curious, because something similar does exist for automobiles.

If it is a US documented vessel, then you can search by name here. Shows owners, past owners and liens.
Office of Science and Technology

[Billy Higgins]

Thanks, Paul. Just what I was after.

[Rhapsody-NS27]

I'll second that... Thanks Paul.

[montenido]

Okay, I'll weigh in. I just sold my Catalina 36 by owner for $52K. Pretty high for a C36, but she was really in bristol condition. Now, I have looked at LOTS of boats lately. I am thinking about making an offer on one that is listed for $99k. As has already been mentioned on this thread, it is not worth that in today's economy.

I have looked at this boat three times now, and will be bringing my wife to see it tomorrow. I told the listing broker that I am interested in making an offer, but that it will be well below the asking price. I gave reasons for this - needs new standing rigging, bottom job, has an older motor, etc. He said to bring him an offer. In fact, he has had the boat cleaned up just so my wife can see it in a tidy state.

It has been on the market for over 14 months with no offers. It is pretty close to what I am looking for - bluewater capable, roomy and safe. I am thinking about offering $65K cash.

Insult or savvy?

Thanks, Bill

[Mimsy]

The worst that can happen is they say no and decide not to enter further negotiations. If you think your offer is fair based on condition, offer it. If they tell you to take a hike, walk on over to the next dock where you will find a plethora of boats to choose from.
Good luck!

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by ice

If you went back and read my posts more carefully, you would see that I very explicitly agreed with you that situation was an honorable win/win.

In my first post I was trying to comment on a very specific type of situation, but my writing was apparently unclear. I was reacting to some implications that you could and should go around offering 50% of asking price. In some situations 'offers welcome' that is fine and a win/win, but in most situations I was suggesting it was polite and honorable to be upfront early in the process that was your intent.

Lets just say the situation is this . . . I put my boat on the market with a clear published asking price and description (and the boat is in fact as described). Someone comes and asks all sorts of questions multiple times (many requiring some research), wants to be shown thru the boat, etc. Then that person offers well below the asking price, despite the fact that the boat is exactly as described. It becomes apparent that person never had any intention of offering anywhere near the asking price and did not have the budget to be near the asking price. I do not respect that practice. If that person had said right up front "I like your boat but can't come to your asking price, are you willing to consider a lower offer' - I would have found it perfectly acceptable, and I could have said yes or no. Or if that person had come in with the ability/intention of being near the asking price assuming the boat was pretty much as described but found major defects that he could not have expected, then a lower offer is also of course perfectly acceptable (But as a note: I don't find "the engine and rigging might have to be replaced because of their hours/age" is not a 'surprise' when the boat's age and engine hours and refit history were public knowledge from the start and they are in perfect operating condition).

Some of you are saying 'well you don't have a gun to your head and can say no to any offer'. Yes, true, but I have wasted time and effort and energy with the assumption that the 'buyer' was somewhere in the same ballpark as the public asking price.

As to "widows and daughters" . . . I come back to the golden rule . . . treat them as you would like to be treated. In the very specific case you describe, obviously a 'low' offer was good for both parties. But in other cases you will simply have to make your own decision about making some money by screwing over another human, rather than helping/educating them.

I was looking at a couple boats in the Med. I talked to the broker. I told him the price was out of our budget but would they entertain an offer. He said that our budget was too low and to look for another boat. A few weeks later he emailed me back and asked if I wanted to make an offer. I told him I was negotiating with someone else. We ended up buying the second boat.

OTOH I went to look at a boat in Mexico. Cost me $750. the boat was not at all what the broker had said.

I think that you have to treat brokers/owners with a grain of salt. Treat each one differently. It is hard to be honorable when there are so many scoundrels in this world.

[motion30]

As a cash buyer the brokers I dealt with encourage offers,,,,,any offers Often times they agreed with me when I expressed a paticular boat was over priced When I stated i did not wish to insult the seller I was told by the broker dont worry I will insult him At any rate it worked for me

[DSDman]

ok so this was my recent experience. found boat that I liked, found other boats of same make and size. took average of what they had actually sold for. went and looked at boat and noted all issues I could find, started subtracting came up with a price and made offer. made it clear that I new there was a huge difference from asking price but that is what I wanted to pay. so we started negotiating from there. We finally arrived at a price and then I had a decision to make, do I want it at that price? Then got survey done, tried to negotiate from there but we had arrived at the bottom dollar. So I had another decision to make...buy it or not. I started adding up the time and cost to get to that point and decided it was worth it to just go ahead and pull the trigger.

[JRM]

Originally Posted by montenido

Okay, I'll weigh in. I just sold my Catalina 36 by owner for $52K. Pretty high for a C36, but she was really in bristol condition. Now, I have looked at LOTS of boats lately. I am thinking about making an offer on one that is listed for $99k. As has already been mentioned on this thread, it is not worth that in today's economy.

I have looked at this boat three times now, and will be bringing my wife to see it tomorrow. I told the listing broker that I am interested in making an offer, but that it will be well below the asking price. I gave reasons for this - needs new standing rigging, bottom job, has an older motor, etc. He said to bring him an offer. In fact, he has had the boat cleaned up just so my wife can see it in a tidy state.

It has been on the market for over 14 months with no offers. It is pretty close to what I am looking for - bluewater capable, roomy and safe. I am thinking about offering $65K cash.

Insult or savvy?

Thanks, Bill

Hmmm, sounds like the Valiant for sale in Ventura. Are you going to be the guy to finally buy it?

JRM

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by DSDman

ok so this was my recent experience. found boat that I liked, found other boats of same make and size. took average of what they had actually sold for. went and looked at boat and noted all issues I could find, started subtracting came up with a price and made offer. made it clear that I new there was a huge difference from asking price but that is what I wanted to pay. so we started negotiating from there. We finally arrived at a price and then I had a decision to make, do I want it at that price? Then got survey done, tried to negotiate from there but we had arrived at the bottom dollar. So I had another decision to make...buy it or not. I started adding up the time and cost to get to that point and decided it was worth it to just go ahead and pull the trigger.

Sounds like a very reasonable approach to me. I don't know why many want to make this so hard. In today's market you are going to get a good deal so why all the angst? It's like people are scared there was a better deal around the corner and they missed it. And you know what , there probably was but do you want to go cruising or just play games?

[DSDman]

the key factors in this game are this. you must first have a motivated seller, then you as a buyer must know what you want and why. I think if you have those two pre qualifiers you can make a deal. As a buyer if you have patience and time you hold all the leverage. Don't concern yourself with asking price. decide what you want to pay. if the seller won't call you back or negotiate just move on. I would not try and just get a survey and start low balling from there, do it up front so no one is surprised at the offer price. so to the original question, I think it's just being savey. let the seller know what ball park you are in first, if they are willing to play ball then pay for a survey. No emotion, no feelings, this is business, lets do it. While you may love the thing it is still a commodity and you must buy it. I'm starting to fall in love with mine now and I'm sure I will attach a whole lot of sentimental baggage to it as time goes on, and I hope to never have to sell it because I will be a complete basket case. I'm thinking of renaming it the Sea Witch.

[montenido]

JRM,

No, not the Valiant, but I have looked at it and may look again if this doesn't work out. I am going to the boat in question this morning with my wife, who has given me the green light (man, am I lucky ) to do whatever I want. She is actually quite the negotiator, so she will come in handy. If she likes it we will offer the $65k cash and see what happens.

I'll keep you posted, wish me luck.

Cheers, Bill

[JRM]

Originally Posted by montenido

JRM,

No, not the Valiant, but I have looked at it and may look again if this doesn't work out. I am going to the boat in question this morning with my wife, who has given me the green light (man, am I lucky ) to do whatever I want. She is actually quite the negotiator, so she will come in handy. If she likes it we will offer the $65k cash and see what happens.

I'll keep you posted, wish me luck.

Cheers, Bill

All the best, I hope you get her. Your wife sounds great. I too am blessed with an understanding partner, although she's smart enough not to give me carte blanche :-).

JRM

[Notpopeye]

brokers work on commission. I would not pay any attention to a broker's opinion. Make your offer, if you insult the broker, too bad. The seller will have 3 options, he can accept, counter or outright reject your offer.
It is your money, your decision and the boat will be yours if the offer is accepted. If the broker does not make enough commission, too bad.

[DSDman]

Good Luck!