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Old 27-02-2014, 17:25   #16
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Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Wow. yeah, no main up, spinnaker pole dangling off the bow. Crew all over the boat, near the jetty. Geez.

No way he should have the main up, no way. That run can only be attempted under power and loads and loads of power.

A big 600 hp twin screw would have suited. !!!

Yes pole should have been tidied and crew inboard and or below But they were racing and it's very common to " store" the meat on the rails.

All in all the helm did well , but he got caught by the big one. Other then not trying at all. There's not much else you could do there.

What I didn't understand was why they sorta drifted around after , hard to tell from the perspective how close they were to the break water ( friggin big breakwater too ) Maybe they lost power or just got confused in the shock

Dave
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Old 27-02-2014, 17:50   #17
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
No way he should have the main up, no way. That run can only be attempted under power and loads and loads of power.

A big 600 hp twin screw would have suited. !!!

Yes pole should have been tidied and crew inboard and or below But they were racing and it's very common to " store" the meat on the rails.

All in all the helm did well , but he got caught by the big one. Other then not trying at all. There's not much else you could do there.

What I didn't understand was why they sorta drifted around after , hard to tell from the perspective how close they were to the break water ( friggin big breakwater too ) Maybe they lost power or just got confused in the shock

Dave

Racing? With no sails up? Two B.S.ing on the bow and one on the cabin top isn't exactly rail meat.
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Old 27-02-2014, 17:51   #18
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Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by Red Sky View Post
Racing? With no sails up? Two B.S.ing on the bow and one on the cabin top isn't exactly rail meat.

What I mean is that that is a racing crew. ( ie club racers) And often they get put out around the boat to keep people out of the cockpit. Bad idea in this case. But common

There is no way you could sail that entrance in those conditions, the only way is power and loads of it.

Dave
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:06   #19
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Racing? With no sails up? Two B.S.ing on the bow and one on the cabin top isn't exactly rail meat.

Understood Dave, thanks.
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:28   #20
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Re: Bad Bad Day

I defer to those with more experience than myself
But would like to learn as much as possible from this video
So here's my thinking
1. It seems to me that this was a ludicrous attempt and if attempted
There should have been more power applied and if that was full throttle
The prudent thing would have been to motor out and hev to
I would have attempted that run only under tremendous power

2. Shouldn't the crew been harnessed into a jack line
Set up so they could not be thrown overboard?
It has always been my understanding that when properly set
Up harness and jack line are supposed to keep you on the boat
And not dragged and bashed along side?

3. One of the old timers who taught me to sail
Made me learn how to tie a bowline one handed while being dragged
by a line in the other. So why weren't guys in the water thrown lines,
Rings, horseshoes and such and just dragged in?

Just want to learn from this pretty nasty video
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:29   #21
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
not able to watch.
Ditto on unable to play video.
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:37   #22
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by Time2Go View Post
I defer to those with more experience than myself

But would like to learn as much as possible from this video

So here's my thinking

1. It seems to me that this was a ludicrous attempt and if attempted

There should have been more power applied and if that was full throttle

The prudent thing would have been to motor out and hev to

I would have attempted that run only under tremendous power



2. Shouldn't the crew been harnessed into a jack line

Set up so they could not be thrown overboard?

It has always been my understanding that when properly set

Up harness and jack line are supposed to keep you on the boat

And not dragged and bashed along side?



3. One of the old timers who taught me to sail

Made me learn how to tie a bowline one handed while being dragged

by a line in the other. So why weren't guys in the water thrown lines,

Rings, horseshoes and such and just dragged in?



Just want to learn from this pretty nasty video

1. It's a common dilemma. Where the next port , maybe nights coming , crew tired and cold , no food. Maybe the weathers getting worse and it's a lee shore.

Yes they needed power. The run was quite good , they were unlucky , that breaker that hit them breached that huge sea wall.

2 yes harness on , in reality club racers are often under equipped , jack lines would have not prevented them going over.

3. No way you can tow people through the water in those conditions. People in full clothes can not hold on above about 3knots try trying a bowline under pressure In The water, risk In that surf the whole line gets thrown Into to the prop.


All in all the rescuers in the speed boat did a damm fine job. The took their time , ensured the boat stayed out of trouble and successfully picked up everyone.

The yacht of course should have gone back and picked them up. But it looked like after the roll that they didn't know what to do,in shock I suspect

Dave
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Old 27-02-2014, 18:51   #23
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
The wave starts to break at the jetty. How does that make the wave action less?

Thanks for correcting grammar on the internet. Really adds to the discussion.

Don't really get the Mr. President line.
President Obama did an AMA and had missed spelling a word correctly. So, when I see an error, I point it out in jest, using that line. A very inside joke perhaps.

It is spelling, not grammar, Mr. President.

The wave wave does not break along the jetty but out in the middle, where the bar is closest to the surface. We have many sand bars here in Oregon.
Like I said, wave action scours the bottom along side the jetty, more depth means less breaking wave. I surf a jetty here and paddle out right next to the jetty, using the rip to reach out back.
We encounter much the same conditions depending on the tide as shown in this video.
Much more has been said about it, with all of the same errors pointed out and armchair sailors posting bullshit information, especially concerning harnesses.
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:09   #24
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Re: Bad Bad Day

Won't armchair quarterback. All I can say is wow.

Quick search looks like this is the place?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/20...2.2473764,16z/
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:20   #25
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Are you nuts. (A) trying to stay holding a line is almost impossible , (b) the risk of the whole lot entangling in the prop.

Dave
Hi Dave,

Nope, not nuts. Encircling the victims in a line will give them security, something to hang onto and move them closer to where you can pick them up. The power boat did an ok job but took longer than necessary.

Once the circling is done the power can be cut (in neutral) and you can hand over hand to the folks in the water.

If it doesn't work for you that's ok. It's the way I do it.
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:30   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

No way he should have the main up, no way. That run can only be attempted under power and loads and loads of power.

A big 600 hp twin screw would have suited. !!!

Yes pole should have been tidied and crew inboard and or below But they were racing and it's very common to " store" the meat on the rails.

All in all the helm did well , but he got caught by the big one. Other then not trying at all. There's not much else you could do there.

What I didn't understand was why they sorta drifted around after , hard to tell from the perspective how close they were to the break water ( friggin big breakwater too ) Maybe they lost power or just got confused in the shock

Dave
I agree. Helm did it correctly. The video is made with a long lens which flattens perspective so it's hard to understand their position, which is not as close to the jetty as it seems.

They were knocked down by a truly giant wave (came over the top of the jetty!) which appeared at just the wrong moment.

Crew should not have been on deck - that was a mistake. If helm was not using full power (we can't tell), that would have been another mistake.
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:36   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post

Hi Dave,

Nope, not nuts. Encircling the victims in a line will give them security, something to hang onto and move them closer to where you can pick them up. The power boat did an ok job but took longer than necessary.

Once the circling is done the power can be cut (in neutral) and you can hand over hand to the folks in the water.

If it doesn't work for you that's ok. It's the way I do it.
You will drown people hanging g on to a rope if you power at more than dead slow, and the power boat was dodging breakers. With people hanging on to a rope he might not have been able to dodge. A rope in the prop would have been death - imagine that little powerboat caught by a wave like the one which knocked down the sailboat. I'm not sure this technique would have been prudent here.
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:38   #28
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Re: Bad Bad Day

Still learning the rules, apparently can't post a link without approval?

If you search google maps for "20750 Zumaia", that looks like the location to me.
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Old 27-02-2014, 19:44   #29
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by TDC View Post
Still learning the rules, apparently can't post a link without approval?

If you search google maps for "20750 Zumaia", that looks like the location to me.
Your link is there in your previous post.

Coops.
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Old 27-02-2014, 20:35   #30
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Re: Bad Bad Day

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Looked like he was angling for the flat water as soon as possible. Quite a bore. Crew needed to be away from the deck and hanging on. Power boat should have just tossed them a line & towed to flat water. By the look of the sails & equipment, looks like a racer or club boat. Where was this? There are harbors here on Lake Michigan that must be avoided in certain winds.

Grand Haven - Strong West wind. Stay away. These hydraulic jumps roll between parallel jetties for over a half mile and rattle marinas 1.5 miles upstream.
It was at Zumaia Spain. A Bavaria 38. Looks like they picked the wrong set to enter and were definitely underpowered.
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