Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-08-2016, 08:40   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 946
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Maybe just a little bit tongue-in-cheekily, does the question fall into the 'if you have to ask...' category?
__________________

__________________
jimbunyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 08:42   #17
Registered User
 
Manos1955's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thessalonki Greece
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26
Posts: 153
Send a message via Skype™ to Manos1955
Re: Average cost of owning formula

10% of the value of the boat new!
You may buy the boat cheap while old But the rule applies to the present value of the new boat
If the boat is out of production then the value of a similar boat
__________________

__________________
Manos1955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 08:53   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Boat: Beneteau 411
Posts: 30
Re: Average cost of owning formula

I would agree that the cost of maintenance probably averages 10%, when buying though, I'd add 25% to fix what they survey misses and refit as you see appropriate the first year.
__________________
apacit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 09:03   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 16,820
Re: Average cost of owning formula

There is no thumb rule.

There is a broad rule which says that the relationship between LOA increase and cost increase is exponential rather than linear.

The cost itself is very easy to calculate by adding up the constituents. Do not forget to allow for proportional amounts of costs that are not recurring every year and then allow also for the residual (re-sale) value, etc.

Nothing fancy, plain excel calculations done in 30 minutes or so.

Cheers,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 09:31   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Gunkholing along the Chesapeake Bay
Boat: 81 Hunter Cherubini 27
Posts: 292
Re: Average cost of owning formula

LOL Manos1955. Using your line of thought, which I hadn't previously considered but does make a lot of sense, and using the my surveyor's replacement cost estimate, my annual maintenance costs would exceed my purchase price by $800 a year! (Replacement cost estimate was $72K...do the math). One could easily spend that amount of money each year on a 35-year old boat such as mine. Man! That would buy a lot of upgrades every year! (Roller furling, new sails every year, a proper chartplotter, rebuild the galley, hire a couple of gorgeous blondes to crew for a few months!) Realistically however, my estimates come in around $1600-1800 per year for general repairs and maintenance (So, no gorgeous blondes on deck in my near future). However, as I do know that I will need to repair or replace the rudder in a couple of years due to delamination (replace is cheaper than repair at around $1K), and the standing rigging, although in good condition will need work at the end of next year, I am planning for those contingencies and classifying them as non-annual repair costs. Thanks for changing my outlook on the 10% rule of thumb measure!

As to Barnakiel's statement about residual (re-sale) value, no matter how much work I put into a boat of this vintage, the re-sale value will continue to depreciate unless it becomes either a collector's item or a museum piece (doubtful in both cases).

Disclaimer: Am not trying to hijack the OP's original thread here. We've been discussing the 10% rule-of-thumb. Am just sharing some of MY planning information in the real world in the hope that you may see some of the variables involved for estimating annual repair and maintenance costs.
__________________
Teknishn (Technician): One who fixes stuff you can't, based on dubious information provided by those with questionable knowledge and/or experience.
Teknishn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 09:49   #21
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,496
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedog11 View Post
Is there any standard formula for annual cost of yacht ownership either per foot or by another metric. I understand the cost will vary based on age and how much of a do it yourself person you are as well as location and other factors. But sweat equity can have a value placed on it and locals averaged as well as age or condition, and I understand it will be no more than a starting point. So is there an industry standard that would state an in new or new boat should require on average X dollars per annum per foot or per dollar value of the boat?

I tried several search terms before I posted the question and found little information. I'm considering my first large boat purchase and can afford the purchase its the cost of ownership that concerns me more. My fear here is cost of acquisition is nothing compared to cost of maintaining it. Just looking for a starting point.
He said average cost of owning, not average cost of annual maintenance, average cost of owning. Huge difference kids. Huge difference.

Cost of ownership includes annual maintenance + improvements + depreciation + slip and storage fees + insurance + lost opportunity + cost of divorce(s) (for some).

The 10% for annual maintenance is prolly as close an average as one can call.

Some owners buy a brand new boat and hire someone to keep it "Perfect". These people can pay a lot more than 10% of market price per year.

Some owners by an old boat, sail it that way for a few years, do only what is needed to keep it from sinking, and flog it. The cost of maintenance is almost nil, but the cost of ownership (all the other fees) can be 100% or more of the initial cost of the boat.

Most owners by a used boat in moderate condition, spend a lot on repairs and improvements the first few years, and then settle into a more reasonable maintenance budget.

So the best answer is, "The amount one is willing to pay".

If you need a number, I can't think of a better one than 10%.

We have been working on our 1975 Douglas 32 for 8 years.

The annual slip and storage fees are about 20% of the purchase price.

We have been performing a very extensive refit (with the rule that the work can't interfere significantly with the sailing season) and have one more year before we head south on her. She'll be as close to what we want as we can get for that kind of money.

Annual fees plus materials = 50% of purchase price.

If I include lost opportunity cost, (the money I could have made working on other boats vs working on and sailing my own) the cost of ownership is about 100% of the purchase price per year.

1975 Douglas 32 for sale, $1,000,000, (negotiable). ;-)
__________________
Rod Brandon
Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 09:56   #22
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,824
Images: 25
Re: Average cost of owning formula

I have spent 30% of the value of my boat on upgrades this year alone!

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 10:30   #23
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,869
Images: 1
Re: average cost of owning formula

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimButterfield View Post
................... It seems cost might increase as the boat ages. The more things age, the more they need repair or replacement ...................
With enough age you are likely to reach an equilibrium. I've replaced the following on my 44 year old boat,- Fuel tanks, water tanks, electrical wiring, plumbing hose, heads, holding tanks, engine, dinghies, outboards, air conditioners, windlass, sails, water pumps, macerater pumps, anchors, chain, auto pilot, refrig/freezer, air conditioners, AC & DC distribution panels, life lines, solar panels, running rigging, standing rigging, diesel generator, deck coring, port lights, rub rail, GPS, depth sounder, radar, wind generator, dinghy davits, hand rails, companionway slides & crib boards, rudder, navigation lights, galley sink, oven, water heater, through-hulls, chain plates, mattresses, interior and exterior cushions, exhaust systems, cabinetry, spreaders, dining table, hydraulic steering ram, shafts, bearings, props, compass, VHFs, door handles & locks and more.

I do have my original hull, masts, winches, genoa tracks, booms and topsides gel coat.

I don't keep an expense log and I do most all DIY. Though I think of myself as living inexpensively, when I scan my list and divide it by the 31 years of ownership for this boat; then, I'm probably not living below Minaret's formula that he presented in post #2.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 11:01   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Grand Banks 49
Posts: 433
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedog11 View Post
Is there any standard formula for annual cost of yacht ownership either per foot or by another metric.
===

There is no accurate formula because there are too many variables that don't correlate with size or any other dimension. Start off by looking at some of the major cost factors:

1. Depreciation/amortization, i.e., purchase payments, time value of money, reduction in value with age, etc.

2. Storage/dockage/moorage, etc.

3. Maintenance/repairs/replacement.

4. Insurance.

Some of the above are loosely related to size but far more important are age, geographic location, type and amount of usage, initial cost.
__________________
wayne.b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 11:11   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon/Mexico
Boat: Morgan 37 OI MkII
Posts: 17
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Over the past 19 years we have spent appx $9000 USD per year for ALL costs of boat ownership including repairs, upgrades, marinas, food and drink while aboard, haulouts, and travel to and from the boat. We do all boat work ourselves and live aboard 6 months a year.
__________________
iseadreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 17:47   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Catalina 42 Mk2
Posts: 5
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Hi, you are in luck. I just did the actual calculations on my yacht last week.
Over the last 12 months we spent $6,185 on a yacht valued at $80,000. Therefore - small sample - but our annual maintenance cost runs at 7.7%. And this is on a boat where we have the attitude - "if it does not work - then replace it immediately" - cheers - hope this helps
__________________
Shirvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2016, 18:32   #27
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,024
Images: 4
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Some real numbers on 42ft sloop built in 1981 over last 26 years of ownership.

Some factors to consider:

1. I am in the marine business and do much of the maintenance myself, though not all, especially on engine;

2. Being in the business most of what I buy is at wholesale or dealer cost;

3. Figures in graph below do NOT include my time (which is worth about $100/hour on current market);

4. Figures include most of cost of dockage, fuel, insurance, etc., so it's sort of a total cost of ownership picture, though not including my own time;

5. Boat has cruised extensively from Grenada to Maine several times, spent 11 years in Caribbean, etc.

6. I am obsessive about keeping boat in good mechanical, electrical, cruising repair. Also, I'm obsessive about equipment added and upgrades to the boat, choosing ONLY the very best available...no junk or fragile, cheapie stuff.

7. While boat is in excellent repair and could cruise just about anywhere, she is in need of cosmetic upgrades. A really first-class job would be in the $20-$30,000 range.

8. Boat is currently valued and insured for $115,000.

That said, I have seen boats for sale which have had a very wide range of maintenance over the years. Many have had owners who spent the absolute minimum, and these tend to be in pretty poor repair. Only a very few on the used market have been maintained in good to excellent repair.

Bill

Click image for larger version

Name:	sbfcostsbyyear.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	90.1 KB
ID:	129576

As you can see, cost each year varies widely. You may get away with very low costs for a few years, but sooner of later you're gonna have to pay the piper, or let the boat deteriorate from lack of needed repair.
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2016, 04:26   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sydney
Boat: 1951 Alan Payne 28ft sloop
Posts: 19
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Forgetting or ignoring marina or mooring fees I have found that the average cost of maintenance and repairs is 8% of the purchase price each year. This is after you have brought the boat up to a reasonable standard following purchase. I have some good data on this as I have owned boats pretty much continually since I was 11 and I am 62 now.
__________________
Mossy Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2016, 05:52   #29
Registered User
 
nicholson31's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Boat: Camper Nicholson 31
Posts: 190
Re: Average cost of owning formula

I've stopped trying to put a firm $ figure on maintaining the boat. Used to keep an XLS spread sheet and receipts on every nut and bolt, but in the end what value is there in doing this, something breaks you fix or replace it. A boat can be an expensive recreational activity or an investment like owning your home, although for the most part depreciative. Some years may be less some more expensive, just except that and enjoy your time on the water, and on the earth!!
__________________
nicholson31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2016, 07:32   #30
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 16,820
Re: Average cost of owning formula

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post

(...)

As you can see, cost each year varies widely. You may get away with very low costs for a few years, but sooner of later you're gonna have to pay the piper, or let the boat deteriorate from lack of needed repair.
Yep.

What is your feeling, if we allow for a standard-long period of ownership, say 10 plus years, what could the AVERAGE figure be?

15%? 20% ?

I would bet on a figure higher than 10% p.a.. We have a small boat, we have had it for over 10 years.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cost Of Owning A 30ish Foot Boat DonZe Boat Ownership & Making a Living 19 20-06-2015 23:39
Cost of owning a 40'ish boat Max Sail Monohull Sailboats 27 30-03-2013 15:29
Average Cost to Go Solar / Wind on Sailboat ? markmark Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 44 24-09-2011 23:53
Average Liveaboard Cost / Foot unbusted67 Liveaboard's Forum 17 05-06-2010 18:19
Average Cost of Maintenance - Cat vs Mono forsailbyowner Dollars & Cents 2 26-09-2009 07:53


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.