Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2015, 17:23   #31
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,427
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Alternately, if you are running a NMEA2000 system, just get a NMEA2000 rudder feedback unit of any make/model and it will work with everything.

Mark
Is this true? We had to switch to a Garmin unit because Garmin has a proprietary rudder feedback control that does not go over NMEA2000, hence why we had to switch out to the Garmin. I do know it goes over a different cable and does not go to my nmea 2000 backbone.

However, maybe I am understanding it wrong, perhaps the simrad unit did not output nmea2000 sentences?
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2015, 18:08   #32
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Alternately, if you are running a NMEA2000 system, just get a NMEA2000 rudder feedback unit of any make/model and it will work with everything.



Mark

Don't think so. Many modern APs have directly connected rudder sensors and will not process the NMEA messages.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 02:42   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 53 ft
Posts: 504
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

Quote:
Originally Posted by nauticalnomad View Post
I was meaning to steer away from Raymarine or general stuff from the chandlery.
I disagree. Raymarine has the best network worldwide and builds as good kit as another. Their prices are lower because of their larger audience.

Don't sell Ray short; I just outfitted my boat with a second AP, the ACP 400 hydraulic and frankly, its tops.
__________________
Eleuthera 2014 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 06:54   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

All APs have direct connectors to their units for analog rudder reference units, but most will also take this information off an N2K bus.

Garmin lists their GFR10 as a nmea2000 device, as well as lists a large number of 2-wire and 3-wire analog sensors from other manufactures that can be used with their APs. They appear to be most generous in this regard.

Simrad, B&G and Furuno take N2K rudder data.

It appears that Raymarine does not take N2K input (as far as I can tell), and can only use the RM unit, but anyone putting RM on their boat deserves whatever compatibility problems they get.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 08:03   #35
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,427
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

So I guess back to the OP's question... yes, very happy with my Garmin Autopilot Head/Control Unit and equally happy with my jeffa direct drive unit, which is compact, energy efficient (and you can change its energy utilization profile to meet your needs) and so on.

There is one annoying aspect to the Garmin unit that may be better in the Reactor series or in other manufacturers - my autopilot doesn't do quite a good a job when running vs. reaching unless I tweak the gain settings for each. This is especially true in a following sea where the autopilot can round up a bit more occasionally. It always recovers but the boat tends to wallow more than we like and can give the boat an uncomfortable motion. By updating the gain we smooth this out but then we have to change it back when we are done our run. Its a pain because its located in the "dealer setup" area of the autopilot and not the usual config areas.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 08:49   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

From what I read on them, Garmin APs do not have adaptive steering algorithms and sell mostly to the power boat market where these algorithms are not generally used.

Do you have any general, and easily accessed, gain settings like RM does for "high medium low" without going into the dealer setup menus?

For others considering a new AP, Simrad, B&G, NKE, and I believe Furuno (and probably others) all have excellent adaptive steering algorithms that use wind, rate compass and speed data to continually adjust the steering parameters, as well as do a good job of predictive anticipation, throughout all sea conditions and points of sail. It is quite impressive seeing counter rudder being applied well before the boat actually starts to fall off down a wave top or round up in the trough - leaving the boat following a straight track.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 09:05   #37
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,427
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
From what I read on them, Garmin APs do not have adaptive steering algorithms and sell mostly to the power boat market where these algorithms are not generally used.

Do you have any general, and easily accessed, gain settings like RM does for "high medium low" without going into the dealer setup menus?

For others considering a new AP, Simrad, B&G, NKE, and I believe Furuno (and probably others) all have excellent adaptive steering algorithms that use wind, rate compass and speed data to continually adjust the steering parameters, as well as do a good job of predictive anticipation, throughout all sea conditions and points of sail. It is quite impressive seeing counter rudder being applied well before the boat actually starts to fall off down a wave top or round up in the trough - leaving the boat following a straight track.

Mark
There is... its an energy management selection. I found it makes that it does not make that big of a difference.

I believe the new reactor series the OP is talking about takes it into the next generation and incorporates some of the features you mention.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 09:11   #38
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,979
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

Pros and cons are:

For higher power needs hydraulic units use less energy and are more durable than linear actuators.

Hydraulics tend to be more robust and have longer cycles to failure than linear actuators. Hydraulics also can be tuned for damping and consume no energy doing so.

A linear actuator is a simpler system and will typically take up less space than a hydraulic system.

The threshold for choosing hydraulic over a linear actuator seems to be around the 40' mark for cruisers. You are right at that threshold.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2015, 09:20   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Autopilot Jefa vs BG vs NKE

LBS, to be clear, you are talking about mechanical linear actuators? There are also hydraulic linear actuators.

In my experience, the hydraulic LAs use more power than the mechanical ones.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
autopilot

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rotary Drives, Raymarine VS Jefa Sailmonkey Marine Electronics 4 07-06-2017 05:37
Jefa Direct Drive for Autopilots svHarbinger Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 10 23-08-2013 17:36
Jefa Rudder Bearings Feedback Wanted Highland Fling Monohull Sailboats 10 22-06-2013 10:45
NKE Electronic's Stevens 47 Marine Electronics 4 06-12-2006 00:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.