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Old 15-11-2018, 03:15   #1
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Atlantic Cruiser

I am preparing to buy a sailboat to cross the Atlantic in 2020/2021I am hoping to buy a good secondhand boat but would like to hear from the community on what would be a good buy. I am prepared to pay up to CHF60 000.- (Swiss Francs) for a vessel. Any suggestions?
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Old 15-11-2018, 04:20   #2
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bushcatz.


FWIW: CHF at near par to USD. (1 CHF → 0.99359 USD)

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Old 15-11-2018, 04:22   #3
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pirate Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushcatz View Post
I am preparing to buy a sailboat to cross the Atlantic in 2020/2021I am hoping to buy a good secondhand boat but would like to hear from the community on what would be a good buy. I am prepared to pay up to CHF60 000.- (Swiss Francs) for a vessel. Any suggestions?
Well I can think of many that I would be happy to do the round trip in that cost less than half.. but I doubt the OP would find them acceptable for a variety of reasons..
Size, equipment, performance, style and more..
Too vague.. need more info to work on..
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Old 15-11-2018, 04:57   #4
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Well, Im not entirely sure. Been looking at boats in Switzerland. There are sailing vessels for half the price, but its the general equipment, especially safety and backup equipment + spares and fuel??
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Old 15-11-2018, 05:49   #5
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pirate Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Again.. No info to work on..
Length, accomodation, keel type, minimum age limit if applicable being just a few priorities needed before one even begins to talk about the add ons you refer to..
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Old 15-11-2018, 06:22   #6
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Bushcatz,

I second boatman61's response. For starters, will you be single-handing? Kenomac aside (another CF member who advocates the-bigger-the-better), generally you would want a boat 35 feet or less. The loads are less, sail-handling by yourself with smaller sails is more manageable, fewer systems with less upkeep (keep it simple) - all would inform our response as to type of boat for you - that is, *if* you were planning to single-hand.

So it's sort of a cascade effect, as you can see, based on the parameters you provide to the Forum.

Please flesh out your request a bit and/or offer some examples of specific boats (and their lengths) that you've already looked at, what you liked about them and I'm sure you'll get a more fulsome response from us.

Warmly,
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Old 15-11-2018, 07:31   #7
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

I think what other posters are getting at is that it is hard or just pointless to give you an ideas (without writing a book, which has already been done) without knowing what you are comfortable with.

A Catalina 27, for example, goes for about $5,000 in OK condition. Sure you'll put $6k into a new rig + lines, then $2k auto-helm, $5k or so into electronics as you feel fit, etc.. etc.. but you'll come out fair if the boat has the right stuff and you won't get too close to your $60k, probably $25-35 for a good outfit I'd just guess, and that leaves you with a lot of room!

Catalina 27 has circumnavigated, so certainly it is up to a fair Atlantic crossing.

But most people would not want to take any 27' boat across the Atlantic just due to comfort, and the Catalina 27 is a production boat - so you have to really get to know her and decide what you feel is right after the purchase (you'll have to do this anyway, and Catalinas aren't bad boats IMO, but they have their warts - cheap parts in some places that need to be replaced).

OK well I did just give you one idea. There are other boats, 30-32 footers, such as Morgans, etc.. that will leave you comfortable at sea and are more heavily built.

But there are a million boats out there, and this is a bad way to start: with the boat. It is better to start with what you need.
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Old 16-11-2018, 02:50   #8
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

Ok....so basically a vessel capable of crossing the atlantic...with correct navigation systems, watermaker, solar, water turbine etc?
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Old 16-11-2018, 03:57   #9
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pirate Re: Atlantic Cruiser

For $60K.. No chance..
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Old 16-11-2018, 07:33   #10
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

I haven't seen any true "bluewater ready" boats like that for around that price. Best was a Morgan 32 that had new rig and new sails and a newish windvane that just came back from bermuda that was going for ~$20k, but that didn't have any notable electronics, no solar or other power generation, no watermaker, etc..

But I'd argue you can get a $20k boat like this and outfit it for well under $40k for the Atlantic (depending on what you want to do - electronics, self-steering, wind generators, water turbines, watermakers ... they add up quick.). Others may disagree.
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Old 16-11-2018, 07:40   #11
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

As RyanODonnelly said, "there are a million boats out there, and this is a bad way to start: with the boat. It is better to start with what you need."

From your few posts it's clear you don't yet know what you need. (For starters, you don't even know what length you want, nor how many people will be on board...) So many boats are capable of crossing the Atlantic. I would suggest that you get out and sail some more - on a variety of boats and in a variety of conditions. That kind of experience will inform for you the type of boat and systems that you'll require to cross an ocean.

Best wishes and good luck!
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Old 16-11-2018, 07:45   #12
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

If your only goal is a transat, do you really need a watermaker and the other associated goodies. Or are you planning on long term cruising, where you’d be anchored for extended times living in the boat?
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Old 18-11-2018, 16:14   #13
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Bushcatz View Post
Ok....so basically a vessel capable of crossing the atlantic...with correct navigation systems, watermaker, solar, water turbine etc?
And a double berth accessible from both sides.

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Old 18-11-2018, 16:41   #14
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And a double berth accessible from both sides.

Paul
But make sure its got lee boards..
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Old 19-11-2018, 04:17   #15
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Re: Atlantic Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
If your only goal is a transat [trans-Atlantic], do you really need a watermaker and the other associated goodies. Or are you planning on long term cruising, where you’d be anchored for extended times living in the boat?
I'm going to make three or more assumptions about our OP before offering a few suggestions.

First, coming from Zurich, I assume he's a native German speaker. (Few to none of us know what helpful books there are for you to consult auf Deutsch!) Second, I assume you are planning on doing a trans-Atlantic crossing for the challenge and adventure! Good enough reasons. Third, as the English saying goes, "The Devil is in the details" - hence, the many requests for more details in this thread.

Thus, you may not have given much thought to what else you are going to do with yourself after that accomplishment? Except, to sell your boat, perhaps? Or else to sail it back to Europe or the Mediterranean Sea and dock it there....

Fourth, have you learned about sailing from any Youtube channels? Or have you sailed on Lake Zurich? Perhaps with friends? Or are you completely new?

The 30-something woman of "Untie The Lines" (she's named "Nike") channel is from NWR Germany. (She also has a blog site to learn from.) Despite sailing experience and certification in Germany, she started out with a sailboat at the bottom: buying a cheap boat she named "Karl" in the Western Caribbean, and after a couple of seasons of too much dockwork, Nike realized that Karl needs a new engine!

Fortunately, our OPs 60,000 Swiss Franc budget should means that you can avoid her troubles and get to something made crossing-worthy in much less time than Nike did. As another poster suggests, you probably should try to buy a sailboat over 32 feet or longer. 32 to 38 feet is the proper range.

This size is good enough for comfortable crossings either alone - or better still - for two at least. (Heavy seas could still mean sea-sickness and bad sleeping, if at all, for some days. But the adventurous and sensible minded can still set their sights only going during a good weather window. Two to three weeks Atlantic crossings are common, but plan for up to four weeks!)

The essential "overview" for your boat and Atlantic crossing needs is Beth Leonard's "The Voyager's Handbook: The Essential Guidebook for Blue Water Cruising." ("Blue Water" means ocean crossing.) The second edition (2007) will do fine.

(Again, I have no idea if this Bible of Blue Water Cruising is available in German; nor do I know if there is something similar in German...there may be...?)

What makes this book perfect for you is the author's outline of plans for "Simplicity," a "33 foot, 30 year old" sailboat. This size and age of sailboat is right in your price range. Beth Leonard explains what you need and why you want it. And in a general way, the costs. Or - more specifically - how to narow down your real costs.

Now, speaking of costs, here's an excellent way to cut costs. It works if you can take the time to travel: Buy your 30-something sailboat not in Europe nor the USA, but in Canada, away from the US-Canada border.

Why? The Canadian dollar is less than 75% of the US Dollar (71% the last time I looked). But border prices for boats are like US prices. However, if you look for used sailboats in Halifax, Nova Scotia - and other towns and marinas in the Atlantic Provinces of Canada, you can get a bargain! The $25,000USD or more boat is $20,000 or $18,000 or even $16,000 in Eastern Canada. (EXAMPLES at bottom.)

(I know about this because I've been looking for a 30-foot or more sailboat for a friend in the US South.)

With money saved, you can afford to refit there. Or else spend $1000 (plus airfare, so maybe $2000 total) to hire an experienced crew-member to sail South to Northwest Florida, say, the Jacksonville area - where the cost of storing and docking and refitting your new but old-sailboat is best achieved, and the weather - outside of hurricane season - is better than cold winter of Canada.

Obviously, this takes time and some money to do in person. Also, you may not have thought to go from North America to Europe, first. But if you buy your sailboat for $20,000USD, then add in $20,000 for refit, add $10,000 in air travel and a month or two of living costs - and maybe $10,000 in safety gear like new emergency raft and satellite phone and radar and AIS, etc - then you are ready to cross an ocean under (or at) your 60,000 Swiss Franc budget.

Now, maybe the refit and safety and cost of travel and living are really half of these armchair estimates. Then what? Then spend a few thousand dollars on coastal sailing or "blue water" sailing instruction! Invest on building confidence. Or equally, along the way you make friends with people with more experience and time to spend with you - on the water - in your new (but old and refit) sailboat! And teach you.

The hard part is getting convinced that all this suggested Grand Planning makes good sense. Again, here is where Beth Leonard's "The Voyager's Handbook" will give you simple spreadsheets to follow and fill out with current cost data. The internet and cruisersforum can help you make cost estimates realistic and do-able.

Spending more on a better sailboat will cost less of your time and less money to improve. But really knowing this comes down to making good cost estimates and planning your budget accordingly.

My ultimate message to our OP is this: do your homework! (That is: Get self-educated! Shopping and testing out plans and estimates is invaluable as soon as you are ready to buy; the effort will prepare you for going deeper into whatever journeys you start on.) Get back to us, here, later (when you have better sketched out your alternatives).

--Orson
(Getting back on the water soon; 25 years experience sailing.)

=====================================

EXAMPLES. Some sailboat "finds" in Nova Scotia, Canada, from three months ago (try these LINKS below--but there are many more. Email and ask others for more sites and sources in Eastern Canada)!

Boats For Sale - Sunnybrook Yachts

Sunnybrook Yachts - North America Yacht Brokerage

1982 CATALINA 38[foot] - $34,900 (C-dollars? I think - ergo $28K US!)
5ft Shoal draft

a large interior layout with a roomy and open salon, private V-berth cabin forward, large quarter berth, large dining table, starboard settee, navigation station and U shaped galley. The woodwork in this boat is in excellent condition and comes with a dodger and bimini.

Please watch the YouTube video in the link below:


Engine rebuilt in 2012 [— looks nasty — replace soon? Get a marine mechanic opinion]

1985 Jeanneau Attalia Chester, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunnybrook Yachts
Price: C$25,500
Make: Jeanneau. - 32ft. But draft is over 5ft
Model: Attalia
Year: 1985

One owner by marine professional.*
Large aft cabin & head. Full galley and seating for six at a large double leaf table.
Yanmar 13hp diesel. RL70C radar & chartplotter, VHF, speed and depth*
Wheel steering. Teak trimmed cockpit and added stern spoon.

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-sailboat/nov...il/k0c328l9002

90 sailboats for sale in Nova Scotia


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/ann...ationFlag=true

31 [ft] ketch [two masts]
$22,500.00 [Canadian dollars?]
Harstad 1976
Boat well equipped with new Stevens sails, 20 hp yanmar deisel, 2012 aluminium tri axle trailer, appraised in 2016 for 46,000 [Canadian Dollars?]. Located in digby.

Google search for sail boat data got this exterior video on this model:

Harstad 31 sailboat exterior walkthrough [circa 2015]
AND THIS PAGE:
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5320
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