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Old 17-01-2013, 09:09   #121
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Originally Posted by Land an View Post
Timely thread for me.

What about the IP makes it perhaps a slow sailer? The displacement itself or is it as much the type of keel.

An Irwin with what looks to be a full keel is on my local CL
We just finished our second season with our IP31. Our usage is essentially daysailing on our piddly lake in Montreal with a 3 week vacation into the great lakes every year. We cruise in company with a bunch of other boats (Mostly CS30s and C&C32s) and overall do not feel the IP to be lacking in speed. To boot we're much morev dry and comfy than they are most of the time.

Boat performance is affected by the shape of the hull, keel config and a host of other factors. The point is that you need to adjust to the peculiarities of each boat to get the most out of it. This is no just IPs vs. the fin keelers but also applies to sailing a fractionally rigged fin keeler vs. a mast head rigged fin keeler.

What I'm saying is that one needs to lean how to get the best out of any boat and that the greatest variable in turning a boat from a dog into a performer is who is sailing her and whether they know how to makethe boat go.

A small point to support the above was the last sail of the season on 10 - 12 knots going upwind, we sailed away from our buddies in their C&C 32 (including a couple of tacks). I know the tables will be turned next year but it sure was a fun way to end the season.

Matt
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:34   #122
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Quite often you cannot leave until you have good light, so departing 3 hours earlier is not an option (particularly in the tropics where day/night are both around 12 hours). Sometimes it is difficult to leave before 8am and it starts getting dicky getting in after 4pm....just a fact. So often slow boats end up doing an overnight rather than having a nice easy day sail. With a fast boat you can always reduce speed and have a very comfortable trip in bumpy conditions (ie Indian Ocean we sailed slower with just a headsail and took it easy). However when the conditions are good you can pour on the pace and take days off the trip. I do understand that people with slow boats are hard to convince otherwise about speed. But I bet that if I could come up with a very cheap product that would give every boat a 2 knot jump in speed, slow cruisers would make me rich!
Ohh well, i think you mean people dont like to sail in the dark, quite often this days, or my wife dont like sailing in the night, with a well track saved in a gps you can depart the harbour or anchorage with no problem at all unless is a infected reef spot, i pull up the anchor sometimes around 5 or 6 am to taste a cup of coffe in the way and arrive in daylight or dark, whatever, to be honest 5 to 6 knts average against 6 to 7 dont make any diference at all unless you are talking about racing boats doing 9 to 10.

Slow boats can sail fast to with a smart sail choice , code 0, reachers , genakers , and when the wind pick up to 25 or 30 is where slow heavy hull show the best, in a nasty Gulf stream crossing i be close to one of this flat bottom production light boats, the boat show the keel and the prop everytime slam in the trough of the crest making a hell of ride, me?? hiding in my dodger wachting the show and adjusting autopilot with a beer in hand with a smooth seamotion with ocasional water rushing in deck, and surprise, i arrive first at gun cay ....
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:43   #123
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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[...] in a nasty Gulf stream crossing i be close to one of this flat bottom production light boats, [...]
Sorry to see that the myth of the flat-bottomed production boat persists. Next time you're walking around a boat yard, look at all the production boats up on their stands. Do ANY of them have flat bottoms?

No.
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:52   #124
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Sorry to see that the myth of the flat-bottomed production boat persists. Next time you're walking around a boat yard, look at all the production boats up on their stands. Do ANY of them have flat bottoms?

No.
Lets see, here in the boatyard, i have a Bavaria with a flat bottom, a bene 50 with a forward section flat , a etap 38I with flat bottom, i have the boat in the hard as you can see, you are the one who need a walk around the boatyard sincerely....
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Old 17-01-2013, 09:55   #125
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Sorry to see that the myth of the flat-bottomed production boat persists. Next time you're walking around a boat yard, look at all the production boats up on their stands. Do ANY of them have flat bottoms?

No.
From Sailing Magazine on the new Sense 43-50ft Beneteau Offerings

"The relatively low-slung hull has a fine entry and a long waterline. Working aft, the hull flairs quickly and holds its ample beam all the way aft, creating a wedge shape that emphasizes livability in the areas where you need it most, the saloon and the cockpit. A hard chine also runs aft from about amidships and serves to flatten the sections and minimize heel.
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:10   #126
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

Maybe Bash misunderstood or i dont explain well, when i say flat botoom sections i mean the forward bow sections , and sometimes from the aft keel edge to the ruder,
nice Bang pounding anyway...
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:30   #127
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

Of course, everyone's talking about hull form and ignoring SA/D. A cursory glance at the various IPs on Sail Calc shows most of them have an SA/D in the neighborhood of 18, which is fairly generous by cruising boat standards.
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Old 17-01-2013, 10:38   #128
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

A few sailors have touched on this, but maybe it bares emphasis. IPs sail differently than racers, but they do sail well. You just got to know what they are good at and exploit it.
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:17   #129
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

REPORTING BACK: After looking at a lot of different boats, I decided in the end to buy an Island Packet 27'. I looked at a nubmer of Catalinas, Hunters, and and O'Day in the 30-36' range, and they are fine boats, but they were all too worn down and not cared for, at least for my tastes. The IP27 I found, however, though smaller, is very well designed and has been extremely well cared for. The range of people's input on the IP's relative speed was immense, but I decided in the end that different people are into sailing for different reasons, which is obviously fine, and so see the same thing with very different evaluations. It seems to me that an IP27 is great for my needs and interests. Thanks, y'all, for your thoughts and input.
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:33   #130
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Maybe Bash misunderstood or i dont explain well, when i say flat botoom sections i mean the forward bow sections , and sometimes from the aft keel edge to the ruder,
nice Bang pounding anyway...
Botoom sections?

Really?
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:40   #131
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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It seems to me that an IP27 is great for my needs and interests. Thanks, y'all, for your thoughts and input.
Congrats! You're going to love that boat.
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Old 21-01-2013, 20:45   #132
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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REPORTING BACK: After looking at a lot of different boats, I decided in the end to buy an Island Packet 27'.
Congratulations! Please post pictures.
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Old 21-01-2013, 21:17   #133
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Congratulations, great boat!
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Old 21-01-2013, 23:33   #134
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

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Originally Posted by csmith22 View Post
REPORTING BACK: After looking at a lot of different boats, I decided in the end to buy an Island Packet 27'. I looked at a nubmer of Catalinas, Hunters, and and O'Day in the 30-36' range, and they are fine boats, but they were all too worn down and not cared for, at least for my tastes. The IP27 I found, however, though smaller, is very well designed and has been extremely well cared for. The range of people's input on the IP's relative speed was immense, but I decided in the end that different people are into sailing for different reasons, which is obviously fine, and so see the same thing with very different evaluations. It seems to me that an IP27 is great for my needs and interests. Thanks, y'all, for your thoughts and input.
Joy of your purchase!
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Old 22-01-2013, 03:07   #135
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Re: Are Island Packets Really That Slow?

From now on it's going to be like this.

IP's are really slow and we know this to be true because we read it on the internet so most of us will sail past you. We will wave, you will wave.

You will sleep soundly most nights secure in the knowledge that you have spilled less beer than we have.

Life is full of trade offs.

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