Are Double-Enders the Sexiest Monohull Design ?

[Keegan]

Are double-end'er monohull designs the sexiest sailboat designs?

This is actually a photo of my last boat, Mandolin, a Robert Perry Panda 40.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Keegan

Are double-end'er monohull designs the sexiest sailboat designs?

This is actually a photo of my last boat, Mandolin, a Robert Perry Panda 40.

Without a doubt the sexiest. Nothing like a nice firm round stern to look at.

[S/V Elusive]

what about a double double ender .. or triple double ender?




I'm not sure they exist, but if a mono double is sexiest ... ??!!!???

[GordMay]

Comparing a transom stern to a double-ender of the same LOA, the fine ends of the canoe stern hull will result in a smaller interior, a smaller cockpit, be more sensitive to weight aft, be slower, less stable, pitch more, and present engineering and aesthetic difficulties in fitting boarding ladders, davits, and wind vanes, etc.

Otherwise ... whatever suits your taste.

Arthur Beiser writes, in “The proper yacht”:
“The only reason to have a rounded stern in a boat of modern construction is for the sake of appearance, and so long as attention is paid to sufficient reserve buoyancy aft, that is justification enough.”

Ted Brewer writes, in “A thing of beauty is a joy forever” Good Old Boat: A thing of beauty is a joy forever By Ted Brewer

“... Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, and this is just as true for boats as for other art forms. However, with boats, particularly sailing yachts, art must be balanced with function ...
... The short, double-ended North Sea stern has long been considered suitable for bluewater cruisers, but it has its faults. The buttock lines are usually well rounded up aft, which can produce a slow boat and also one that may be prone to being pooped when running in heavy seas, as it lacks reserve buoyancy above the LWL. The ever-popular Tahiti ketch is an example of this type (see illustration). My answer, when a client wants a double-ender for bluewater voyaging, has been to develop a "cruiser stern" with more fullness on deck, almost round when viewed from above, to provide additional reserve buoyancy and ease the buttocks (see illustration). It is a functional shape, but not the prettiest to my eyes. However, one New Zealand owner of a 46-footer has put 170,000 miles under her keel in all weathers and swears it's the best boat ever built, so the cruiser stern may have virtues other than function.

Long sterns, whether counter or canoe type, always look pretty and have the virtue of good reserve buoyancy. In effect, the stern tends to rise nicely as a big sea sweeps under it, thus reducing the chance of being pooped. The long counter also picks up waterline length as the boat heels and so adds to potential speed - perhaps its main virtue besides appearance. The prettiest sterns of all may well be the heart-shaped transoms with raised taffrails designed by LFH for his attractive Bounty, Tioga, and Ticonderoga designs (see illustration). This type of stern fits perfectly with the lovely Herreshoff clipper bow. Big Ti, as she is called, is one of the most beautiful yachts afloat, in my opinion...”

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Comparing a transom stern to a double-ender of the same LOA, the fine ends of the canoe stern hull will result in a smaller interior, a smaller cockpit, be more sensitive to weight aft, be slower, less stable, pitch more, and present engineering and aesthetic difficulties in fitting boarding ladders, davits, and wind vanes, etc.

Otherwise ... whatever suits your taste.

Well...I suppose that may be true for some double-enders but I don't think you can paint them all with that broad brush. My canoe stern is quite full having very good bouyancy. I have a monitor wind vane on the stern, and no problem mounting it. This cockpit is larger than my former Tartan Blackwatch 37 but yes at 26,000 lbs is slower but the comfort ratio is quite a bit higher. There will always be trade offs with particular designs and to each his own. There is no perfect boat.
I think Keegan's post...
Double-End'rs Sexiest
"Are double-end'er monohull designs the sexiest sailboat designs"?
....was just a statement in regards to what he feels and likes. I'm sure I could dig up some designer that raves about double-enders. Whats the point?
But hey...thanks for raining on our party.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Keegan

Are double-end'er monohull designs the sexiest...

Yep, nuthin like a nicely rounded stern... Perry does it well, but I think I like the stern-hung rudder variations the best...

[Keegan]

Some of the most successfuly sold and sailed cruising yachts were double enders. Here are a few of the more common ones:

Tayana 37
Baba 40
Westsail
Valiant 40,42,50

The Valiant 40 used to be the most sold and sailed cruising yacht in America and between all of them, they sailed 100,000s of thousands of sea miles. The Tayana and Westsail have put the miles under their keels also.

Double enders do have drawbacks but they have made it around the world more than many other designs. Also, when they are varnished up real nice and the teak decks are in great condition they can look real nice. I used to keep mine bristol and everywhere I sailed her people commented on how much they liked looking at her. They were not snooty yacht designers, they were just people who liked looking at nice sailboats

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

... I think Keegan's post...
Double-End'rs Sexiest
"Are double-end'er monohull designs the sexiest sailboat designs"?
....was just a statement in regards to what he feels and likes. I'm sure I could dig up some designer that raves about double-enders. Whats the point?
But hey...thanks for raining on our party.

If one wishes to ensure that their parade never gets rained upon, one shouldn’t take it outside into the elements.


Double-enders, cooked vegetables, and most perfumes don’t happen to appeal to me; but I’m certain others will have different preferences.

[Celestialsailor]

Thats ok Gord...No hard feelings here....Just had to stand up for the gracefull ladies. Jokingly when I see a flat transom...I wonder where the rest of the boat is.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Thats ok Gord...No hard feelings here....Just had to stand up for the gracefull ladies. Jokingly when I see a flat transom...I wonder where the rest of the boat is.

Ted Brewer offers one explanation of where the “rest of the boat went”, in the aforementioned article: Good Old Boat: A thing of beauty is a joy forever By Ted Brewer

“... Reverse transoms do have the advantage that they save weight in the overhangs and thus improve performance. I may even be responsible in part for the popularity of the style. Back in 1961 we were getting the 12-Meter Weatherly ready for the 1962 America's Cup races. Bill Luders asked me to check how much weight we could save aft if we chopped off her lovely traditional stern to a reverse transom shape. I measured, calculated, and came up with a "cut off" line that would save several hundred pounds where it counts. That was enough for Bill. The next day the men were out there with a chainsaw! Weatherly successfully defended the Cup and, suddenly, reverse transoms were all the rage...”

Hmmmm ... a chainsaw as a design tool.

[eyschulman]

Some of the double enders look good for me there is a element of beauty in function and I always give the double ender a wave as I sail by-It usually has to be a quick wave-some people refuse to accept the compiled knowledge gained from experience and reason( anti evolutionists another example)

Having owned Wine glass transoms, reverse transoms, and double enders (Not canoe stern), my preference for asthetics, and sailing characteristics, is double enders. Down wind in a following sea, I have had no boat that handles better than a Colin Archer style double ender. The space is a question, but I have never found it an issue. I tend to look at how much space I actually use on the boat. Out of the 8 boats I have owned, Kittiwake, was the best to sail, and the most comfortable in a sea way. She was also the most pleasing to the eye.

[anotherT34C]

I agree that they are pretty... but I wonder how much of that perception (to me) comes from the fact that they are somewhat rare, relatively speaking.

The Baba 40 is in close competition (to me) for 'prettiest' along with the good old Hinckley Bermuda 40 (yawl). Both are on my short list for next boat.

Are there any Baba's, Lord Nelsons, or Hans Christians that were made centerboard?

[Last Call]

I think the Tanya 37 is beautiful and I was considering purchasing it. The draft was a issue. I am new to sailing I have been advised by more than one on this forum that I would more than likely run aground a good bit. The area I live in a draft of 6 ft is allot so I would have to keep her far from my dock in a marina. In the description of the boat the owners and broker were touting her ability to handle heavy seas. I find it frustrating because of mixed advice , I suppose I shouldn't be surprised opinions are many . I get people telling me they handle poorly, some say they are great I guess I just have to take all the advice for what it is worth and take the plunge and decide for myself. If I wanted alot of room I would buy a house boat I guess. I dont know how I would feel in her quarters after weeks at sea but I was hoping it would be livable for two . The thing about buoyancy in the Stearn that was mentioned seems logical to me as does the remark that if the distribution of weight is correct then it would not be an issue.
I am going to go crazy as I abandoned the Idea of her, and started looking but I looked at advertizements for so many hours over a month. I went back to looking and am frustrated to say the least. I will never give up until I find it

[kiper204]

By far the sexiest ..... we may have to do with less space but it takes following seas well and is damn near irresistible. Flat is just not for us