Are Cats that Great?

[Blue Stocking]

Dave'
This is not a criticism, but a general curiosity question.
What are your thoughts on pitchpoling. We did it regularly on the Tornados when we sailed the course with the 75 degree reaching leg.
Not sure how the Tornados now handle with the assym. chute, and have never sailed a big cat with a chute.

[Joli]

Our cat is a great mouser, we are critter free thanks to Oreo. Not only that, he comes when we call him, just open the back slider and whistle. He comes bounding out of the field and heads straight for the garage.

[CarlF]

The cat - mono argument is only interesting if you compare equal price boats. A 40ft cat should be compared to a 50ft mono. The question is not "would you buy a cat if you could afford one?" but rather "if you were to buy a more expensive boat would it be a cat or a mono?"

In my case, after many test sails and charters, I recently bought a mono over an equal price cat. It was a close call but - for my wife and I - it was the right choice. Having said that, the runner up (a cat) was a damn fine boat.

Carl

[sandy daugherty]

Anyone who believes there is a single answer to the "Best Boat" question is incredibly naive. And someone who thinks that all monohulls and all catamarans can be discussed as illusory constants is worse. Go to a hardware store and demand the best tool. Go to the library and request the best book! Foolish. I hope the following explanation is unnecessary: Both monohulls and catamarans cover the spectrum from large to small, cheap to expensive, new to old, fast to slow, shoal to deep, ultra light to battleship, skittish to inert, condo-ish to casket-ish. Cats cost more per foot, and more per pound because there's more to build and the market is willing to pay more. But it ends there.

Finite comparisons can be made one on one, but that is not you are doing here.

What could possibly motivate a literate person to start such an aimless discussion? What does he have to prove by it? Why can't he just say what he believes? Citing one article is meaningless. There are thousands of articles, and no two of them are directly related.

I can only ASSUME that the intent was deliberately provocative. The suggestion that ANY reasonable catamaran aficionado would suggest that all cats are better than all monohulls is egregious. Even if there were some person, trained in rigorous objectivity, who had the opportunity to sail every cat in the world and every monuhull in the world, and wrote the definitive comparison, it would still be one person's opinion! Arguing with an opinion is fruitless at best, and a bar fight otherwise.

Do we come here just to fight?

If you can't afford a particular cat, you can't afford the comparable monuhull either. If your feelings are hurt because some cat is a little faster, get over it; some monohull is a little faster, or roomier, or prettier too. If you think your boat is better suited to slog thru bad weather, go slog and gloat. But if you are always jealous of someone else, you need help, and it won't have anything to do with sailing.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Dave'
This is not a criticism, but a general curiosity question.
What are your thoughts on pitchpoling. We did it regularly on the Tornados when we sailed the course with the 75 degree reaching leg.
Not sure how the Tornados now handle with the assym. chute, and have never sailed a big cat with a chute.

Many beach cats are prone to pitchpole when pressed VERY hard because they are built withy one thing in mind - thrills. If you are not on the edge of disaster, press harder. My first cat was like that, and I pressed it hard. Many spills. A 49r or Aussy skiff is like that too. That is comparing equalls, and they are all great fun. In both cases, it is more the speed than the sail area that causes the crashes.

My second boat was a Stiletto 27. Different bow design - capsizable if pressed too hard, yes, but impossible to pitchpole, and pleanty tried while racing! They don't even start to get bow-down. If you can't do it at over 20 knots with the chute up, you can't do it. I'm not certin any 27' 24-knot boats can claim any better. Sailing is just plain unstable in that speed range in a light boat. Those sorts of boats are not cruising boats, even if they are cruised or have bunks. They are sport boats.

I imagine the same holds for cruising boats, even amung large ones. Pitch-pole resistance in large waves is MUCH more complex than capsize. It has to do with bow form and stern fullness and how much sail is up. I think we might find that cruising monohulls and catamarans are very much the same in this reguard, each requiring separate evaluation.

Given the choise of beach landing a Hobie 16 or a 505, I would think the Hobie is safer. Reef the Tornado a lot and hold the speed down to a safe keel-boat 5 knots and pitch poling is impossible.

Sandy hit it on the head, and I eluded to this in my first post; too many factors for rational discussion. I own a conservative catamaran now, and to be honest, it behaves a lot like a monohull. It is a cruising boat. So there.

[meyermm]

"Where is your (problem?) with cats?" THE OWNERS

[fareweather]

a big cat with a chute

This is a reason why cats can be "that great". We have sailed in 5k wind doing 3-5 knots on glassy water, it was a pretty fun day.

[meyermm]

If I ever hear a distress call from a multi hull I will know it is a hoax as they are so perfect that nothing could ever go wrong. I will write to the magazine and tell them to refrain from any kind of critic of multihulls as it is obviously untrue as that was the whole point of this thread, a magazine article, will that make you all happy chappies? As I can see that you are very sensitive to any type of critic of your perfect vessels. The rest of us will go on enjoying our less than perfect boats with all there faults that most of us would happily admit to but not get so upset about if someone dared to mention them.

[fareweather]

Thanks for removing all doubt Mr meyer. I thought you were asking the question "Are cats that great", an undefined "that great" not withstanding. Obviously you were just trolling.

I think you need to start a new group called "Catamran (owner?) Hater Club" in which you can massage all of your insecurity about whatever boat you are sailing.

Or you could just love the one you're with and go sailing.

[trinescape]

no boat be it a monohull or a multhull goes on a close reach without a bit of movement/pounding and as stated before any multi with poor bridgdeck clearance is going to pound /slam under the bridge deck so yes i do believe that the article in question was biased towards monohull boats and yes i have owned both and i currently have a multi but its not perfect it has faults but you would be a tool to believe you have the perfect boat every boat has there limitations........

[Dave852]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Dave'
This is not a criticism, but a general curiosity question.
What are your thoughts on pitchpoling. We did it regularly on the Tornados when we sailed the course with the 75 degree reaching leg.
Not sure how the Tornados now handle with the assym. chute, and have never sailed a big cat with a chute.

I suppose you could get any boat to pitchpole given the right conditions and how hard you are pushing them. As far as my boat I think much faster than 20 knots I would consider slowing her down. But in the conditions shown in that video we were far that scenario. The St Francis does have very large bows.

[Strygaldwir]

It is an interesting phenomenon of many humans that we spend so much time looking for differences and relatively little looking for similarities. We should have a thread that talks about the similarities between a cruising catamaran,cruising monohull, and cruising trawler! Betcha there are MANY more similarities than differences.

I still scratch my head over Shiite and Sunni, Catholic and Protestant. Is there REALLY enough difference to kill over? I hope humanity grows out of it one of these eons.

[meyermm]

Personally I thought the article was not biased and just pointed out that not all is great with a multi. Most of the article was positive and yes the bridge deck on this vessel was probably too low but a great deal of the article was lavish in praise of the boat. The reaction by multi owners having not read the article has proved once again there over zealous attitude to any critic of that type of boat. The no sink multi line must be very heavily pushed by the sales people as it is brought up so regularly by the owners. By the way this thread was under the monohull heading but amazing how many of those that responded were multi hull owners, count them, yet thay claim I am the one with a problem??

[Red Mantis]

Originally Posted by meyermm

By the way this thread was under the monohull heading but amazing how many of those that responded were multi hull owners, count them, yet thay claim I am the one with a problem??

Dude, really? You start a thread titled "Are Cats That Great?" and then you complain that people with first-hand knowledge care to opine? Further, your primary complaint is that people who sail multihulls think that multihulls are great? Even yet still further, you look at 50 measured responses and characterize them all as mindless cheerleading by people who have no business in "your" forum?

I guess the answer is yes; to this disinterested observer, you are the one with the problem.

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by Dave852

I suppose you could get any boat to pitchpole given the right conditions and how hard you are pushing them. As far as my boat I think much faster than 20 knots I would consider slowing her down. But in the conditions shown in that video we were far that scenario. The St Francis does have very large bows.

Thank you Dave,

Unlike some on this forum, who appear to be ready to fight over these issues, I use it mainly for entertainment. As you provided visual proof of big boat speed, I thought I would ask you. I'm done