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Old 16-11-2009, 14:55   #61
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Originally Posted by Red Mantis View Post
Dude, really? You start a thread titled "Are Cats That Great?" and then you complain that people with first-hand knowledge care to opine? Further, your primary complaint is that people who sail multihulls think that multihulls are great? Even yet still further, you look at 50 measured responses and characterize them all as mindless cheerleading by people who have no business in "your" forum?

I guess the answer is yes; to this disinterested observer, you are the one with the problem.
The couple that wrote the article spent four months sailing from Northern Australia "Cairns" to South Africa quite a long voyage on any vessel so do they not have "first hand experience"?
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Old 16-11-2009, 15:01   #62
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Old 16-11-2009, 15:07   #63
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Exactly!

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Old 16-11-2009, 15:14   #64
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The couple that wrote the article spent four months sailing from Northern Australia "Cairns" to South Africa quite a long voyage on any vessel so do they not have "first hand experience"?
I flew in a glider once. Therefore I now have first hand experience and am entitled to extrapolate that limnited data into commenting on the entire filed of fixed wing aircraft.
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Old 16-11-2009, 15:19   #65
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I flew in a glider once. Therefore I now have first hand experience and am entitled to extrapolate that limnited data into commenting on the entire filed of fixed wing aircraft.
Monobooms suck...





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Old 16-11-2009, 15:21   #66
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Thank you all for the entertainment this morning!!
Tomorrows post will be "Are Mono's that great" I wonder if I will get a similar response from Mono owners??
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Old 16-11-2009, 15:39   #67
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Ex-cal

Is it true that you can't sink a biplane?
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Old 16-11-2009, 16:05   #68
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Originally Posted by meyermm View Post
Thank you all for the entertainment this morning!!
Tomorrows post will be "Are Mono's that great" I wonder if I will get a similar response from Mono owners??
You have got a wonderful boat. Why not just sail it, and not worry about the braggers that sail a cat. Braggers come in all facets of life. There are the I am tougher than you bragger, my lady is prettier bragger, my dad can whip your dad bragger, and heck there are even mono braggers. As there should be, because there are some awful sweet monos, and yours included.

Like I posted early on here. Cats have negatives like all boats, but they have positives too. One thing though since you seem to have wanted to stir the pot. Show me a video with a young teenager at the helm. Doing 15- 20 knots while others sit around, and read books. Then I can tell you a story about taking 17 hours to make a trip that usually takes me 6. I can also tell you about 450 miles in 42 hours.

I use to drive a 300ZX, but I didn't begrudge those who drove Ferraris. I just drove the hell out of that 300 doing drifts up, and down Hiway 1, the Pacific Coast Highway in Calif. I enjoyed driving that little red car, and could care less who spent how much on what kind of car they cared for.

If it really bothers you that much that there are some cat braggers. Possibly what you need to do while you sail your sweet boat is to learn to get some thicker skin........BEST WISHES.........i2f
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Old 16-11-2009, 16:38   #69
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. The no sink multi line must be very heavily pushed by the sales people as it is brought up so regularly by the owners.
None of the sales people push the "no sink multi line" because multis will sink also. Almost all of them, since they are loaded with lots of "cool' cruising stuff - we are talking about cruising cats here right? What they do offer is a much slower sink rate overall. Usually enough time to "stuff a rag in it" so one can "make it back".
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Old 16-11-2009, 17:04   #70
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Ahhhhh but there be a lil problem. Too down hill and cats grind to a halt. Gybing all the way done wind adds lotsa miles.
I know. Somehow, not all cat owners seem to know the same thing. (Or, perhaps, since they go fast anyway, they do not care).

Mono's cool, cat's cool. I have a small mono, I know to sail a (big!) cat. And once on the other side (of the pond) - see my comment on mono's rolling (in the seaway - as shown in the video at "heavy vs. light", or at anchor - see my comments) and then you just think the next boat - a cat.

I do not think it counts lots to folks in the marina, but I am 1)on the budget and 2) I prefer anchorages. So to me the comfort at anchor is a factor and not much less than sailing characteristics of a boat.

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Old 16-11-2009, 17:10   #71
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None of the sales people push the "no sink multi line" because multis will sink also.
I agree, never had this pushed on me or even mentioned at any stage
Quote:
What they do offer is a much slower sink rate overall. Usually enough time to "stuff a rag in it" so one can "make it back".
Absolutely
I have seen a 40 ft grainger full bridgedecked cruising boat that fell of a wave while racing in heavy conditions with a daggerboard fully down, which then due to poor bonding and excessive leverage tore a gaping hole in the side flooding that hull.
Sealed compartments in the ends and being built of positively bouyant material allowed them to motor home gradually with a partially submerged hull using the dry motor on the other side.

I have also seen a 38 ft crowther that was T Boned during a race with a nice bow sized hole punched in the side, again, partially flooding this hull.
Sealed compartments in the ends and being built of positively buoyant material allowed it to motor back to port.

And lets not forget Bagatelle

http://www.multihull.com.au/www/pdf/pdfs/bagatelle.pdf

Quote:
After three nights on the reef Bagatelle was eventually
floated off the reef and towed into Cairns, minus her port hull.
There is no doubt in our minds that had the salvage team been
able to leave Cairns at the time salvage company said they
would, and equipped with the flotation gear which should have
been on board, the hull would still have been there and easily
repairable. In the circumstances the salvage team did the best
they could, miraculously saving the rig. Bearing in mind that
the mast was supported by only three stays – one to each hull
and one to the forebear – that the port hull had disappeared,
and the forebear disconnected at one end as a consequence,
only clever work by the divers with halyards to other fixed
points on the boat saved the day
Now, If I was to punch a hole in the side of "another" type of vessel, large enough to put my head through, or lose half of it entirely and had a large block of lead strapped to the bottom of that vessel, what would have been the likely outcome?
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Old 16-11-2009, 19:15   #72
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I think cats and tris look neat and they remind me of those 3 wheel Harley tricycles. They don't fall over and they're probably more comfortable, but they're not real motorcycles. They're "something different", just like cats & tris are "something different". Nothing against them, I just don't think of them as sailboats, which is fine. Who knows, if I ever get scared of heeling on a real sailboat I might get one someday.

How's that?

Mike
Well, I posted this yesterday as a fun "jab" (note smilies), but now that this thread has turned a bit nasty, I feel the need to say that I was JUST KIDDING. Actually, I don't get the point of this thread at all. Seems like just a matter of preference to me. I don't need a big boat, so I'd probably never get one, but the owners all seem to like them, so what's the prob?

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Old 16-11-2009, 19:34   #73
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Ok I find myself drawn to this discussion. Back to the original question ďAre cats that greatĒ Yes! Why?

Speed. Itís great to be anchored after a one night passage that your mono friends are taking two nights to complete while the wind is blowing 35 knots with rain and lighting everywhere. When they arrive you hear what a miserable night they had out there while you were comfortably sleeping. Or the passage that took you 16 days while they took 25.
Not all cats are fast though, some smaller over laden cats are no faster than monos.

Motion at anchor. Itís great to be able to hang out in a rolly anchorage without going insane.

Solar Panels. Itís great to have space to deploy 11 solar panels and not have to listen to a noisy wind generator.

Two engines. Itís great to have a spare engine. We use only one at a time except for docking and make 7 knots at 1800 rpm burning 1 gal per hour. Easily driven whether by sail or power.

Maneuverability. It great to have two props 23í apart.

Space. Itís great to host the party; you donít have to drive home afterwards

It floats. Yes most cats will float when holed. Though not all.

It sails up right and does not roll. Itís great to be able to eat and drink with out holding on to your plate. Itís rare that your wine glass will not stay put.

So letís ask ďAre monos that greatĒ Yes! Why?

Cost. As has been mentioned, cost is a huge factor. If I had a budget of under $100k to cross an ocean I might choose a mono. Although not all monos are inexpensive. The monos my wife was touring during the boat show were right up there with cats.

High Latitudes. If I wanted to visit the high latitudes I would want steel or aluminum. Hard to build a cat under 50í in aluminum with out being a dog and forget steel.

Motion at sea. Except for the rolling I prefer the motion of a mono at sea.

More reasons that monos are great. Sure, Merermm when you make that post ďAre monos that greatĒ you should expect more mono replies along with their proud bragging. Why would you expect them to be commenting on cats? I donít know why mono cat debates are so testy on the forums, when we are having sundowners with mono and cat friends while cruising itís not like that at all. This thread has been very entertaining for me this evening though
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Old 16-11-2009, 23:23   #74
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Must say this is a giggle of a thread. At the moment both sides are graded a C with a C+ or even a B is likely if there is no eye gouging.

Excluded is Ex-calif as I do believe his monobooms will struggle to stay afloat while he pops ashore for a cold beer. He's definitely a D but was a F but uprated for graphic content I fly so like them airplane thingys.

A quick more serious note - if anyone thinks a mono, a cat or a tri is safer than the other they are deluding themselves. All are perfectly and equally safe. Any of them will only become un-safe if the idiot aboard makes it that way.
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Old 17-11-2009, 00:32   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
I think cats and tris look neat and they remind me of those 3 wheel Harley tricycles. They don't fall over and they're probably more comfortable, but they're not real motorcycles. They're "something different", just like cats & tris are "something different". Nothing against them, I just don't think of them as sailboats, which is fine. Who knows, if I ever get scared of heeling on a real sailboat I might get one someday.

How's that?

Mike

You are a genius.

YOu have just expressed what I have felt for ages and couldn't quite find the words -- or the right analogy -- to explain.

Motorcycle and trike -- that's it, exactly.

Which is nothing against cats at all, it's purely a matter of taste.

I'm a mono man myself, but I sure love the two engines on a cat. Huge plus for redundancy (big safety factor) as well as maneuverability, as someone mentioned.

When comparing cats and monos, I think many people make the mistake of comparing the same length cat with the same length mono. This isn't really right. The equivalent mono is considerably longer, has the same interior volume, and costs about the same. I guess the average 40 foot cat is going to be equivalent to an average 50 foot mono. It will be about as fast (if we're comparing a cruising cat with a longer cruising mono). According to statistics, they are equivalent in terms of safety (subjectively I feel safer on a mono, but apparently that feeling does not correspond to reality, and maybe goes away with experience). The cat will be MUCH lighter.

So choose what looks and feels good to you; there's not much else to say about it. Diffr'nt strokes for diffr'nt folks.
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