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Old 20-11-2009, 11:37   #136
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Trampoline Trampoline!!!

OHHHH! Trampoline
Ahhh, Trampoline



There are no cigarette smiles!

I'll admit it. I was going to sell my cat and buy a mono. But this thread has given such an appreciation for the joys!
Rug burn?
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Old 20-11-2009, 13:59   #137
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The more this thread goes on the more I am taking a dislike to Cat owners not the boats.
Yes, you just have to hate anyone who is happy with their boat.
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Old 20-11-2009, 14:20   #138
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Rug burn! Nope, coated smooooth, flat netting!
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Old 20-11-2009, 15:29   #139
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I had an opportunity to crew on a 62' oyster on a run from Annapolis to Ft. Lauderdale a couple of weeks ago. Let me offer a couple observations.

That is the most beautiful, smooth sailing personal sail boat I have ever been on. The interior and exterior were immaculate the systems were well thought out and implemented, the joiner was superb. It is as I expect from what may have been a $2 million dollar 4 year old boat that had an owner that has the $$$$ to maintain her.

It's sailing was far smoother than my 39 foot catamaran. It had lots more space, could carry lot more people and equipment. It was fast! It would out my cat on ANY point of sail you'd want to name in ANY condition, light or heavy winds. I enjoyed the heck out of sailing aboard being at the helm. There is nothing I could say negative about the boat at all.

But, would I trade, straight up that boat for mine. Well, honestly, the answer is no, unless I could then turn around and trade it for the 46 foot Privilege catamaran that I want. Why, and am I just blowing smoke? It is a matter of personal preference. There was 6 that made the run down to FL. The owner decided that this was his minimum for overnight, off shore runs. That was the absolute right number. Two on watch, 3 hour shifts 6 hours off. When the boat got down to North Carolina, 30 knot on the nose wind caused the owner to put in at Beaufort. Could it have beat into the wind? Absolutely! Would it have been safe? NO doubts! Would it be fun? NO way! Would I have done it in my boat? NO way! Why? cause its not safe? No, cause its NOT FUN! My wife and I have made the run down to Florida 3 times now in our boat. Just the two of us. We sail a combination of offshore intra coastal. With a 63 foot mast off water, we can motor all the way to Ft. Lauderdale on the intra coastal. With the 95 foot mast on the Oyster, there are a few fixed bridges that it is just too tall to go under. With a 7+ foot keel there are areas that are too shallow. We'd have to go off shore, and that is too much boat for us to handle for extended off shore passages. So, if we were making a trip like that, we'd have to take on crew. We'd either have to call friends, or hire them. That does not give me the sense of independence and self reliance that is my main motivator for cruising.

Would we have gotten there faster? Well, the Oyster is a LOT faster. We were doing 9-10 knots with just a head sail in about 18-20 knots of wind. We were smiling that the boat just didn't want to go under 9 knots and we were going too fast down the Chesapeake. But, we stopped for weather for 4 days. In the cat, we'd have continued down the ditch. Our overall elapsed time would have probably been only a day or so behind. Now across an ocean! The Oyster would beat us by weeks! But, we may never know. My wife has set a limit, she can only go a maximum of two consecutive nights at sea. After 3 days, she has to see land. If I want to go longer, I have to find someone else to go with me, she fly and meet me there.

The Oyster would sit 8, 2 comfortably down below for dinner, 2 more with plates in their laps or on tray tables. Okay, 1 more at the nav-station too! We can sit 6 in okay comfort in our cat. The oyster would sit 4 for dinner comfortably in the cockpit. We can do 6 fairly comfortably. We can sleep 6 in okay comfort. The Oyster can sleep 8 and more if they want to sleep on decks. We might be able to sleep as many or more, we have these trampolines that we'll be doing additional exploring with when it get hot again ! The oyster has centralized AC and heat pump we use propane and space heater. When I was sleep, couldn't tell the difference. Warm and toasty either place. The oyster had bigger beds. I rather like sleeping close to my wife. The Oyster had a dishwasher, we have us. We both have built in microwaves, propane oven and stove. Oh, the Oyster had a twin sink. We have a single sink, but don't have to turn on a pump to drain the sink. We both have vacu-flush heads. Same electronics, except our's has integrated navigation software. The Oyster did not. Water maker. We had the same capacity water maker. They had the newer Spectra. We have the old Spectra. It had a gen set that was going all the time we were at anchor. We are quiet at anchor. They had a Delta anchor and all chain rode. We have a Manson and all chain rode. Okay, the Oyster's anchor and chain were bigger and thicker, but we both had the appropriate windless for getting it back on board. Oh, we have a chain counter, the oyster uses markers on the chain to tell how much.....

But in any case the relevant point is for the TYPE of sailing and the USAGE we put the boat to, OUR cat suits US better. I wouldn't enjoy the Oyster and the things I could do with it as much as I enjoy the thing I DO with my catamaran. Is it safer in the Oyster? No relevance to us. I bunker is safer than either boat. The point being I am not going to put either boat to a test of whether either is safer. I have been in 60 knot winds aboard my catamaran. NO, it was not fun, no, I am not doing that again. Was I safe yeah! I have been in 40 knot winds aboard a 60 foot mono. was it fun, No, it was not fun. I may do it again, but not if I don't have to. Was it safe? Sure. I was almost dumped out of a bunk in the Oyster, then we put up lee cloths (that's what those thing are for! ) Never been an issue in the cat.

Your choices may be different, but when we're out there, we'll be happy to invite you aboard our boat for cocktails, sundowners, yatzee, chess, scrable, bidge, BS, or what ever. We'll be more than happy come aboard your vessel for the same. I am sure we'll both enjoy the company, water and sunset!
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Old 20-11-2009, 16:21   #140
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Rug burn! Nope, coated smooooth, flat netting!
Are the openings in the netting large enough to get a good grip with your toes while you're "performing" on the trampoline?

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Old 20-11-2009, 17:30   #141
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Are the openings in the netting large enough to get a good grip with your toes while you're "performing" on the trampoline?

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Old 20-11-2009, 17:59   #142
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Some threads go off shore, others off topic. In a nice way.

Cool redain' / watching.

Canibul - did you have to ask for a property release on this one?

Hugs to all ya,
barnie
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Old 20-11-2009, 19:24   #143
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prehensile toes. Thats the ticket.
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Old 20-11-2009, 19:59   #144
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Some threads need to be diverted on occasion.

I will check out the applicability of toes on tramps at the next opportunity and report back.
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Old 20-11-2009, 20:29   #145
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I will check out the applicability of toes on tramps at the next opportunity and report back.
Heh . . . pictures won't be necessary - I have a vivid imagination!

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Old 20-11-2009, 22:10   #146
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The Best Cat is a Free Cat...

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Old 21-11-2009, 04:05   #147
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I keep seeing mono sailors who claim cats are ugly....but I don't find that to be the case at all.

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Old 21-11-2009, 19:07   #148
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You're both wrong. Give me an autopilot, full sail, a moderate breeze in the late afternoon, and ---
the trampoline!
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I will check out the applicability of toes on tramps at the next opportunity and report back.
The only reason to have a trampoline on a boat is if you happen to fall off the trapeze while performing - You guys just have no imagination at all...

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As for the price issue. I fully agree that this is a clear and present obstacle to cruising catamaran ownership for most of us. My choice was to locate an older, smaller cat with a pedigree (pun intended). The other choice is to build one yourself and save 2/3's of it's cost.
Different boats for different occasions.

The only thing I can't understand is why we can't agree to compare interior volumes when having these discussions.

A 40 foot mono does not compare to a 40 foot cat with this definition. Then the price discussion, the sailing discussion etc. etc. all makes better sense.

Last year I was in a tacking duel with a 38 foot cat while sailing my little 26 footer. Was he sailing well? Definitely not. Was he going well into the wind. Definitely not. Was he "spending" more money? Definitely.

OTOH - A Taipan came by and smoked us both.

All things and points of sail considered I prefer to sail a mono. All things considered I prefer to live on a cat. All things considered I'd get a race boat to go fast.

I understand all the "outrun the weather" comments but I still find it ironic that when the point of sailing is to slow down and smell the roses, we focus so much on how fast we can make passages.

Ho hum...
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Old 21-11-2009, 19:48   #149
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I agree that a sweet sailing boat is a pleasure. Yet, boats sail less than 5% of their life. More than 95% is spent at anchor or at the dock.

Nothing comes close to a catamaran.
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Old 22-11-2009, 05:01   #150
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EX,

When you make a fast passage. There will be less chance of encountering bad weather. More time to lay on the hook, so you can slow down to smell the roses. I have cruised at 4 knots average, and 8 knots average, sometimes even much higher. You will understand if you have ever cruised. If not it just doesn't make sense to some..........i2f
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