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Old 02-12-2017, 12:18   #16
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

My immediate thoughts:
1. Always have a tack pennant to make sure the sail is high enough to Never catch solid water, and to keep wind in it in the troughs. Pennant should be permanently attached to the sail - decide on length and have the sail maker put it on.
2. Always have the sheets on the sail, in the sail bag, ready to go.
3. Mark where the sheet cars need to be - best if you have at 2 or more sets of cars so that you don't have unreive other sheets.
4. Triple stitched, probably, and no need to have heavier sailcloth than the main - although same sailors think it should be heavier
5. Imho the "Storm jib" shown on the sail plan is a small jib and NOT a storm jib. It has no pennant!
6. Fair winds and I hope you never have to use it!!
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:31   #17
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueazimuth View Post
My immediate thoughts:
1. Always have a tack pennant to make sure the sail is high enough to Never catch solid water, and to keep wind in it in the troughs. Pennant should be permanently attached to the sail - decide on length and have the sail maker put it on.
2. Always have the sheets on the sail, in the sail bag, ready to go.
3. Mark where the sheet cars need to be - best if you have at 2 or more sets of cars so that you don't have unreive other sheets.
4. Triple stitched, probably, and no need to have heavier sailcloth than the main - although same sailors think it should be heavier
5. Imho the "Storm jib" shown on the sail plan is a small jib and NOT a storm jib. It has no pennant!
6. Fair winds and I hope you never have to use it!!
All good points! and to #5, I'd agree with that. Here is a shot of a good book and a boat with a real storm jib and trysail at work...
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Old 02-12-2017, 13:05   #18
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

FWIW: The RORC rules stipulate the maximum size of a storm jib is .05 times the height of the foretriangle (I) squared. For t he Vega, this works out to around 53 sq ft. the OP's proposed sail is about 43 sq ft, so it would easily pass muster for RORC races.

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Old 02-12-2017, 13:36   #19
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

well I ain't no Gauss, but I see the I=30.5' approx. and so,
30.5 x 30.5 x .05 = 46.5125
where am I going wrong?
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Old 02-12-2017, 13:50   #20
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

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well I ain't no Gauss, but I see the I=30.5' approx. and so,
30.5 x 30.5 x .05 = 46.5125
where am I going wrong?
You are correct... I was using the forestay length instead of I. Had been jousting with the IRC rules which use that number in the calculation and failed to change when reverting to RORC.

Thanks for picking it up... the OP's sail is still within their parameters. I personally might go smaller, for many experienced offshore racers have said that in really heavy going the RORC sail is too big. A number of folks involved in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart mentioned this.

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Old 02-12-2017, 14:16   #21
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

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Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
I'm about to pull the trigger on a storm jib from thesailwarehouse.com, but wanted to do my due-diligence and see if there's anything I should be considering.

I was going to go with their "SJ16.0H" which is a storm jib, with hanks, measurements 16, 12 and 7.6 made from 8 oz Dacron.

I think having this shipped here would be significantly cheaper than having the local loft make something up.
The Gale Sail ever enter the equation?
The Gale Sail | Easy Handling Storm Jib | ATN Sailing Equipment
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Old 02-12-2017, 14:45   #22
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

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Pretty cool sail!, but the downside is that the time you'd be hanking that on, when it is really wet and bouncy, is just the time you'd be saying "glad this is already rigged" when there is a storm jib hanked on a solent stay ready to go. Not sure about the way they have the tack on that example too. But still, very interesting.
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Old 02-12-2017, 15:10   #23
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

My understanding was that if the inner stay is attached within a foot of the top of the mast, there's no need for running backstays. But they would certainly be called for further down.

International orange is the preferred color, of course.

I think my genny tracks could bring the blocks forward far enough to get the right angle on the sheets, but I'm actually not sure... I wouldn't really know for sure until I had the sail on hand.

I looked into options like the Gale Sail, but concluded an inner stay, though a lot more work, would be the better way to go.
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Old 02-12-2017, 15:13   #24
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Pretty cool sail!, but the downside is that the time you'd be hanking that on, when it is really wet and bouncy, is just the time you'd be saying "glad this is already rigged" when there is a storm jib hanked on a solent stay ready to go. Not sure about the way they have the tack on that example too. But still, very interesting.
the key just like a reef its best done before you actually need it .
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Old 02-12-2017, 15:16   #25
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Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

What to look for: ensure its of robust material, a thick dacron that wont shred on your first storm out. Check that its easy to install noting you may be at the bow with 3m waves and you dont want to be there any longer than you need to be. When you see a proposed storm sail, sit back and assess each step of install this canvas, likely on your own.
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Old 02-12-2017, 16:01   #26
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

Re the GAle Sail: It looks so fine in the glossy brochures... but I have never heard of any single cruiser successfully fitting, hoisting and using one in actual "storm jib" weather conditions. It's hard enough to utilize a proper hank on storm jib when the conditions call for one. It's all very well to pontificate about preemptive setting and all that, but the realities are that one may need the damn thing with little warning, so extreme ease of setting and usage are important factors.

I t hink Ryban's thoughtful approach to this and other problems is admirable in a newbie... so, good onya, mate!

Jim
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Old 02-12-2017, 16:10   #27
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Re the GAle Sail: It looks so fine in the glossy brochures... but I have never heard of any single cruiser successfully fitting, hoisting and using one in actual "storm jib" weather conditions. It's hard enough to utilize a proper hank on storm jib when the conditions call for one. It's all very well to pontificate about preemptive setting and all that, but the realities are that one may need the damn thing with little warning, so extreme ease of setting and usage are important factors.

I t hink Ryban's thoughtful approach to this and other problems is admirable in a newbie... so, good onya, mate!

Jim
Ryban, when I read Jim's post here, it reminded me: You might specify Wichard Snap Hooks (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=W...vHNM%253A%252C , the one in the upper left corner of the page), instead of piston hanks for it, because they can be used one handed, while holding onto the stay. We used it/them on our 36 footer's storm jib.

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Old 02-12-2017, 16:18   #28
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

Maybe I am missing something here , but a storm jib typically has a high cut clew and with that and deciding just how much of a pennant you want, you can change your sheeting angle by a lot, and maybe get it so that you just need a pair of extra cars on your existing genoa track. On my 26 footer, the storm jib sheeted very well using cars on the original track. I agree that the racing rule storm jibs seem large and the Vega is light and should be easy to drive with small sails. The solent stay that ryban is planning on will be a foot or so aft of the headstay and that small extra difference aft of the bow makes sail handling easier. Of course you will be doing it all scooting on your butt with safety harness lines in the way, but you do get used to that sort of sailing. I personally, for several reasons would not consider a Gale Sail. ____Grant.
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Old 02-12-2017, 16:44   #29
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

BTW, there is a method for evaluating a distant sail to see if it can be sheeted on your own boat. The add will list the three edge dimensions for a sail. Take a bit of line that is as long as the three edges combined and join the ends. This now represents the sail. Tie loops at points representing the head, tack and clew and attach the halyard and sheet at the appropriate loops, then tack it down to the bow, using a pennant if that's how you intend to use the sail. Hoist until the "luff" rope is taught. Then pull in the "sheet". If you can get all three sides of the "sail" tight at the same time with the "sheet" going to your available fairlead, then the sail can be used successfully. If not, try adding/subtracting from the pennant or moving the fairlead. If no adjustment is successful in getting the three sides taught, the sail won't work for you.

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Old 03-12-2017, 07:50   #30
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Re: Anything special to look for in a storm jib?

Haha, yes of course, that's an easy way to dry-fit a sail you don't yet have. I'll probably need the stay in place, though, or I could rig a halyard as an approximate stay.

And yes, the clew could easily be moved up and down to accommodate the appropriate sheet position. I might need to rig blocks somewhere on the cabin roof to direct the sheets appropriately, but I don't think so.

I'll make myself a fake storm jib this evening and see how it all fits.
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