Anyone Converted a Racing Boat to Cruising ?

[Sahara]

Race boats today mostly do round the buoys racing, not point to point like the old days. They're not really designed to have the tankage for cruising, the emphasis with the rig is tunability rather than sturdiness, they mostly require a pretty big crew that is willing to rough it. At race weeks, they live in hotels, not on board. The cockpits are meant for working crews, not relaxing at anchor.

Some of the early 70's boats, OTOH, were built to go upwind in a blow, and to handle well in anything, and were built like tanks. Think S&S Swans. Properly set up for shorthanded sailing, these are good offshore cruising boats, but not very well suited to entertaining dockside, if that is your intention. They didn't share the twitchy handling of the later rule beaters. BTW, those boats got their reps while being driven very hard. Cruisers just don't sail that way - we don't try to fly a kite overpowered.

At the Sailing Anarchy site there is a regular, Moonduster, who has been singlehanding an ex-Admirals Cup S&S 47 around the Pacific for quite a while. A very knowledgeable guy in all things boats, with some pretty strong opinions on a variety of subjects. You might go there and ask, he frequents the Cruising and Gear portions of SA.

When looking at a race boat for cruising, first decide how you plan to cruise. Will you have your wife aboard? Make sure you can fit a snug spray dodger. Does the boat have ventilation? Cockpit seats? Is there a comfy place to lean back in the cockpit and read a book?

The big Frers Volcano (62'?) was for sale, converted to cruising, a while back (may still be). She was well built out of aluminum, had a nice interior. She would be my idea of a good conversion.

[MarkJ]

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Originally Posted by [/FONT

Sahara;351923]

Moonduster, who has been singlehanding an ex-Admirals Cup S&S 47 around the Pacific for quite a while.

Yeah. Met Wayne in Tonga last year. He is a dear friend and we love him to death, but he is quite enigmatic! Cool boat but really NOT a cruising boat in any way whatsoever. Its cold molded ply and, well, basic below. Need a milloniare to keep it up.
We raced against him in Tonga on a Friday night race and his upwind performance is awsome! He outpointed us by 10 degrees, at least... the boat just lifts to windward. But he had to pass us 3 times! The Beneteau 393 got in front 3 times! See tactics are just as important as speed
Do I have to say that he did soundly smack our ass by the end?


Anyway chics just don't dig it. Its a boys boat.

Now, enough about Moonduster and our friend Wayne...

not very well suited to entertaining dockside

Mate, its not just about entertaining dockside! Entertaining at anchorages just means sharing a beer or dinner as the sun sinks. Any boat that can't do that is a total waste of money!

A world cruise, or a few years in the Caribbean, is all about the pleasures of life and they do include other people.

This 'dockside condo' slag at boats that I often read is just baloney! The biggest crock of poop. Cruising is all about enjoying the environment and ease of that enjoyment, jumping off the side of the boat for a swim and being able to get back aboard easily; getting on and off the boat into the Dinghy without feeling like a mountain goat.

Cruising is about life Your life and all its facets - not just making fast day trips or passages.

I feel few racing boats, very few indeed, would be good cruising boats.

All that being said the old 1970's cruiser/racer IOR boats would be the best of the lot - if they are still afloat or not stressed to buggery in every inch of hull, rigging and geer and you like sleeping across the boat from your wife. I prefer our 'stateroom' to cuddle my snuggle-bunny


Mark




Mark
PS I am having breakfast in our commodious cockpit watching all the other cruisers using their cockpits too... their ain't no sound of spinning winches

[Joli]

Well it depends on the old race boat, the person that will sail it, and their ability to maintain it.

[sailorboy1]

When I was last boat shopping I came across a VERY well equipped for long term cruising C&C-36 (except for the fuel capacity). The C&C-36 is considered a racer/cruiser, but I learned to sail on one and it is a racer that can be handled by 2 people and has a finished interior. But with that said I just couldn't see doing long term cruising on one and getting a 20 degree heel set to my inner ear. To me converting a racer to a cruiser would in the end get you a boat that you could travel in (fast), but I wouldn't call cruising.

[Josehoya]

I read the whole thread. Amazing stuff. I am contemplating converting a 1980's j 41into more of a cruiser/liveaboard. Banks won't loan me the money I need to make a big investment up front, but i can afford to buy something inexpensive and go from there. I am a single 30 year old guy that loves to sail and doesn't need much. I like customizing things, so the idea of having a boat that is solid, could perform, and would slowly get the creature comforts is appealing. Ideally I would live on the boat for a year or two and do short to medium sails, eventually doing more island hopping.
1) There have been comments about these boats being squirrly downwind in high winds. But what happens if you use smaller sails and aren't trying to push it to the limit? Is it possible to sail shorthanded or even single handed? I wouldn't be going out on the water with a bad forecast...but eventually...

2) How much would redoing the rigging usually run in order to make it a 1 person, 2 person, 3 person boat? And how complicated is it to do on your own?

3) Being a 15k displacement, fiberglass boat, how much extra weight percentagewise could be added in terms of creature comfort before the performance or safety is noticeable, I know this is a common sense thing, but I'm thinking more along the lines of water heater, A/C, supplies, insulation, batteries and cushions

4) Aluminum was mentioned as far as needing insulation, what about for this fiberglass old racer? any ideas?

5) Siren, the cork decking looks great...any before pictures?
[IMG]file:///Users/jose/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]
Hope this isn't too much.

[Weyalan]

Originally Posted by Josehoya

1) There have been comments about these boats being squirrly downwind in high winds. But what happens if you use smaller sails and aren't trying to push it to the limit? Is it possible to sail shorthanded or even single handed? I wouldn't be going out on the water with a bad forecast...but eventually...

Our IOR 40' 1-tonner, like most IOR boats, has a hull shape that makes here something of a pig downhill in a decent seaway. But that criticism of this type of boat is mostly when racing fully crewed with as much sail up as possible, and considerably more sail up than is sensible! If you are prepared to reduce sail to a sensible, comfortable degree, there is no reason why these types of boats need to be such a handful. We have made a 24 hour 8 knot average running downwind in big seas, with no headsail and 2 reefs.

Additonally, most IOR boats of that era had big barn-door type rudders. Replacing that type of rudder with a more modern shaped rudder will make steering much easier off the breeze

Originally Posted by Josehoya

2) How much would redoing the rigging usually run in order to make it a 1 person, 2 person, 3 person boat? And how complicated is it to do on your own?

I'm note entirely sure I understand the question. If you are talking about running rigging such as halyards, then they will most likely be already routed back to the cabin top and accesible from the cockpit.

If you are talking about running rigging such as runners and cheskstays (quite common on IOR racing boats), then I, personally, reckon that if you buy an old warhorse, it isn't worth trying to change it too much... it was designed with a fractional rig with runners and checkstays, and the cost of changing this to something significantly different will be an over-investment of both money and time. If you want a more solid mast section with swept back spreaders and a simple backstay, buy a boat that already has them.

The best that you will probably manage with an original IOR rig would be to make your checkstays detachable, shorten your boom enough to pass inside your runners, and get a cut-down mainsail that is full foot but only about 3/4 hoist... that way you can tack and jibe inside the runners and just attach checkstays when necessary

N.B. If you have a masthead rig, ignore all of the above, heh.

If you are talking about replacing standing rigging such as shrouds, it will depend very much on where in the world you are... we replaced all the shrouds on our boat for about $2000, but 500 miles north of here you wouldn't get change from $5000 or even $6000 for the same exercise.

Originally Posted by Josehoya

3) Being a 15k displacement, fiberglass boat, how much extra weight percentagewise could be added in terms of creature comfort before the performance or safety is noticeable, I know this is a common sense thing, but I'm thinking more along the lines of water heater, A/C, supplies, insulation, batteries and cushions

Remember that a 15k IOR racing boat was probably designed to be raced with 10 crew and all their gear.... theres a goodly amount of extra weight right there. Don't forget, also, that these boats would probably have raced carrying mainsail, #1 light genoa, #1 heavy genoa, #2 genoa, #3 jib, #4 jib, 0.5oz kite, 0.75oz kite, 0.9oz reaching kite, 1.5oz "chicken chute" and maybe even a ghoster or a spitfire (not to mention storm sails).... thats a lot of weight of sails right there... you will probaly only need a main, a furling #2, and an MPS (and storm sails)... therefore a significantly lighter sail wardrobe.

Obviously you are going to add weight.... probably in tankage if nothing else (many old racing boats have very small fuel and water capacity), but if you are careful / thoughful about how you refit, this shouldn't be a problem. We are about halfway though the refit of our 25 year old IOR racer, and I think I can truthfully say that currently it is not any heavier than when we bought it.

Also, boats of this vintage are relateively solidly built (referred to, disparagingly, as "leadmines" by those who sail more modern designs), and by comparison to modern lightweight racers are probably more accommodating of a few extra hundred pounds of gear.

Originally Posted by Josehoya

4) Aluminum was mentioned as far as needing insulation, what about for this fiberglass old racer? any ideas?

Aluminium does generally need insulation (for condensation as well as thermal insulation). Fibreglass boats don't necessarily need it for thermal insulation or condensation, but may do, depending on where the boat is based - if you are in the tropics, condensation may be an issue, if you are at higher latitudes, cold might be a problem.

[sailerbg]

I am considering purchasing a 2002 C&C110. with the traveller located just in front of the helm. Just in case i get tired of being rained on while taking the family out cruising, does anyone know if you can move the traveller above the cabin? is there special mounting brackets one can buy?

[sailerbg]

interesting i find myself in the same dilema. i want a fast cruiser! i am considering a 2002 C&C 110 love the layout. the only thing is that i may want some kind of a bimini so moving the traveller to the cabin is the only option i have? any innovative bimmini options that anyone knows of?

[Siren]

Sorry for the delay of requested photo of inside Siren.. but for some reason cannot upload them

and whatever you do... enjoy sailing... every boat is different and suits different sailors.. important is to love your boat..

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Siren

Sorry for the delay of requested photo of inside Siren.. but for some reason cannot upload them

and whatever you do... enjoy sailing... every boat is different and suits different sailors.. important is to love your boat..

G'Day Siren,

Would love to see them if you can work it out to post them.

Our Insatiable II is a Sayer "cruising" design, built by Gary McAulay in Oz, 1990. Built in strip plank Western Red Cedar, light, strong, pretty. Sails well, is comfortable at sea (despite what all the "experts" say about modern designs), and suits us completely. I think that Jon is a much under-appreciated designer!

Good luck with your continued adventures.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz

[Siren]

good day to you.

I'll try my best... to post the images


I have the sayer13 ex Sayernara that won the Osaka cup in 1999 and many others.

I have weighed her down. Put insulation. have many perks even a dvd external in the cockpit. If you pass by Pattaya I invite you on board.

She is fantastic. Despite what everybody says I completely disagree. If I want to go 5 knots like any other sailboat I reef and enjoy my dinner with a perfectly flat boat. If I want speed I raise the sails and do the speed of the wind.

I spent a fortune and for sure have an overpirced boat today but she is amazingly wonderful.

I have enjoyed the bays of Palawan and the 8 meter waves of the south China sea.
I have surfed her at 22 knots for 6 hours.

What is the mosy beautiful thing is that my wife just loves the boat. Open transom to the sea. Fast but comfortable. Many people forget that a racing boat is uncomfortable at 20 knots not at five....

You have a 4 meter sea behind you you surf the waves.. they dont hit you you hit them..

thats the difference.. But on the other hand I need to admit that it cost the double per meter than a good quality sailing boat. But she also gives you double the pleasure..

Happy sailing

[Siren]

Who requested images of Siren they can be seen on facebook siren sirena

cheers

[Siren]

Managed to get the photos to upload of Siren interior..

Forgot to add that on the tiller I put an external table which I use always even in bad weather.

saluti a tutti

[deckofficer]

Time to revive a 3 year old thread. The topic "Anyone Converted a Racing Boat to Cruising ?", is the same, but a multihull this time.

Could anyone comment on this Formula 40 cat's conversion? At 3000 kg and 43' it caught my attention.
Formula 40 Extended to 43" for sale, 13.11m, 1990 | BoatshedPhuket.com