Another rudder failure..

[boatman61]

Just appeared on my FB wall... seems it had a new 'fast' rudder fitted just 3 years ago..

Please share: Lost boat!
17*39.46N 62*41.03W. Approx.. 15NM SE St Barts
Monday 6th March 2017 2200hrs
S/Y Elethea. Foul weather. Rudder blade came off
All crew transferred from life raft to MV Zenith, cruise liner. Elethea abandoned
1983 Beneteau First 38. Sloop
elethea TORONTO is painted on topsides. Yellow antifoul/bottom
Anchor and all chain/rode deployed
Strong NNE wind. NW going current
Anchor may have found the ground around Saba, St Eustatius?
Elethea may drift through Caribbean Sea S. of St Croix?
Unlikely to sink - may reach S. America?
Please report any sightings to Coastguard, All At Sea and riktheskip@hotmail.com
Very many thanks for reading this. Do please keep an eye out. Thanks again
PS The trophy for 2nd place in the St Maartin Heineken regatta which completed Sunday 5th March 2017 is down below on Elethea. If it could be returned to the owner, that would be wonderful

[Orion Jim]

If not taking on water since when has it become necessary to abandon a functional yacht? Plenty of ways to hold a course. May have to travel a bit farther but rough courses are certainly doable. Has jury rigging gone passe'.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

If not taking on water since when has it become necessary to abandon a functional yacht? Plenty of ways to hold a course. May have to travel a bit farther but rough courses are certainly doable. Has jury rigging gone passe'.

Easier said than done on a fin keel boat. Your long keel boat can be sailed using just sail trim, one of the draw backs of losing a rudder on a fin keeled boat. Some can be sort of be steered with a drogue but it depends on the boat. Offshore in a good breeze is another category.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim
If not taking on water since when has it become necessary to abandon a functional yacht? Plenty of ways to hold a course. May have to travel a bit farther but rough courses are certainly doable. Has jury rigging gone passe'.

In accounts of crews who have saved a boat after losing a rudder, or partial rudder, while at sea say that it is extremely difficult. Those were boats fully crewed by experienced sailors. Probably next to impossible for a mom and pop boat. I did read of one guy who saved his 49 ft. boat in the Pacific. It took seemingly heroic effort by a strong man, a single hander.

What were your experiences Jim?

[boatman61]

Well considering they had the cup for second place SXM Regatta on board they should have had some experience.. race folks say that's the only way to learn how to sail.. Snark Snark..

[svHyLyte]

Firstly, I'm pretty shocked to hear of a First 38 loosing its rudder. Perhaps the blade loosened from the armature but the shaft and armature itself? Pretty hard to believe. Regardless, given the described wind and sea conditions, and the position, I suspect so long as the yacht was buttoned up, she'll end up in/around St. Croix or the VI.

Beyond the foregoing the following should be obligatory reading, watching for anyone sailing off shore: Drogue Steering.

For more on the subject see (click on): How to Steer Without a Rudder.

Note that in the test case illustrated in the above, the rudder of the Swan 44 "Test Boat", was entirely removed. While the foregoing focuses on the use of a Galerider Drogue (but is not an advertisement for that gear), in extremis one could fairly easily conjure up a drogue with a sail bag loaded with some chain.

FWIW...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Firstly, I'm pretty shocked to hear of a First 38 loosing its rudder. Perhaps the blade loosened from the armature but the shaft and armature itself? Pretty hard to believe. Regardless, given the described wind and sea conditions, and the position, I suspect so long as the yacht was buttoned up, she'll end up in/around St. Croix or the VI.

Beyond the foregoing the following should be obligatory reading, watching for anyone sailing off shore: Drogue Steering.

For more on the subject see (click on): How to Steer Without a Rudder.

Note that in the test case illustrated in the above, the rudder of the Swan 44 "Test Boat", was entirely removed. While the foregoing focuses on the use of a Galerider Drogue (but is not an advertisement for that gear), in extremis one could fairly easily conjure up a drogue with a sail bag loaded with some chain.

FWIW...

Good one..

[DeepFrz]

Very interesting. Thanks for the links svHylite.

Edit: Be interesting to see how this would work in more realistic off shore conditions.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Easier said than done on a fin keel boat. Your long keel boat can be sailed using just sail trim, one of the draw backs of losing a rudder on a fin keeled boat. Some can be sort of be steered with a drogue but it depends on the boat. Offshore in a good breeze is another category.

I believe that the almost phenomenal maneuverability and performance that some designs have essentially comes from them being inherently unstable.
Remove that big blade rudder and it may be real difficult to add stability. Whereas a full keel lacks maneuverability due to it being so stable, and likely loses momentum under sail when this stability has to be overcome to change course, remove that rudder and they will be more likely to remain stable.

Key thing I got out of that video was the requirement to run the lines from amidship, I understand why, just had not thought about it, I had always thought run the lines from my Genoa winches, now I see I need to run them around my midship cleats first.

I noted that they also let out the ground tackle before abandoning, except for reading that here, that is something else that I had not thought about, hopefully it catches and they get their boat back.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

If not taking on water since when has it become necessary to abandon a functional yacht? Plenty of ways to hold a course. May have to travel a bit farther but rough courses are certainly doable. Has jury rigging gone passe'.

Losing a rudder/steerage is one of the top 3 (or top 5) reasons that folks set off their EPIRB, & abandon the boat. Sadly. And a detailed inspection of a boat's steering system is SOP for anything I'll be on for a passage of any length.
All too often you'll find something, even if not in the rudder blade or shaft itsself. A cracked chain in the pedastal, worn cables, loose bolts, missing split pins, etc. But it's also quite common for serious voyaging boats to need major rudder work at some time, if not flat out replacement.

Though in this case, given the fitted "light rudder", such implies a composite shaft, integral to the blade. Which means carbon, & also sometimes less than perfect construction or design. Any & all of which can be substantially, invisibly damaged by impacts, or just some hard sea miles. Particularly given carbon's poor performance when it comes to impacts. But that's pure speculation on my part.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Very interesting. Thanks for the links svHylite.

Edit: Be interesting to see how this would work in more realistic off shore conditions.

A few years ago, one of the members of our Club lost the rudder on his late 1980's era Hunter 37 roughly 150 miles southwest of Ft. Myers on a return trip from Isla Mujeres following the Regatta Sol al Sol from St. Pete to Isla. Weather conditions were reportedly pretty crappy. Never-the-less, the crew conjured up a drogue and with that (s-l-o-w-l-y) sailed the yacht back to Ft. Myers where temporary repairs were made by which they brought the boat home via the ICW.

Two Spinnaker sheets from winches through snatch blocks amidship and back to a drogue rode off the transom.

[neilpride]

Amazing guys!!!
https://youtu.be/iTVTh4jO3Pw

[barnakiel]

Hey.

But the position is only 15 miles from St Barth.

My clients sailed a rudder-less boat 2/3 across the Atlantic last year. Not as much heroism as claimed by others. Time, yes. Effort, yes. Good luck, too.

Why abandon a boat 15 Nm offshore and one that is not sinking?

Why not dispatch a strong rib and tow her to safety immediately afterwards?

I bet they will recover. Possibly a panick attack in one of the crew led to a chain of less than necessary actions.

b.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

In accounts of crews who have saved a boat after losing a rudder, or partial rudder, while at sea say that it is extremely difficult. Those were boats fully crewed by experienced sailors. Probably next to impossible for a mom and pop boat. I did read of one guy who saved his 49 ft. boat in the Pacific. It took seemingly heroic effort by a strong man, a single hander.

What were your experiences Jim?

Since I singlehand, before taking my current boat offshore I spent time familiarizing myself with the method of construction and the component parts of my steering system. I hoped that I might be able to troubleshoot any steering issues promptly without having to encounter them for the first time during a time of stress.
I have a full keel attached rudder which is inherently strong. I am able to get beneath the cockpit to access my steering gear albeit uncomfortably. I carry all the tools necessary and i have the spares to remedy most situations.
I carry a drogue and I have practiced using it in favorable conditions to steer my boat under sail. My boat will hold its course close reaching in a Gulf Stream gale even though the airvane on my Monitor flew off to parts unknown at some point during the night.
Perhaps it is wrong of me to expect other offshore sailors to consider the unexpected during the planning stages of their voyages.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Since I singlehand, before taking my current boat offshore I spent time familiarizing myself with the method of construction and the component parts of my steering system. I hoped that I might be able to troubleshoot any steering issues promptly without having to encounter them for the first time during a time of stress.

I have a full keel attached rudder which is inherently strong. I am able to get beneath the cockpit to access my steering gear albeit uncomfortably. I carry all the tools necessary and i have the spares to remedy most situations.

I carry a drogue and I have practiced using it in favorable conditions to steer my boat under sail. My boat will hold its course close reaching in a Gulf Stream gale even though the airvane on my Monitor flew off to parts unknown at some point during the night.

Perhaps it is wrong of me to expect other offshore sailors to consider the unexpected during the planning stages of their voyages.

I think every one who knows better stopped reading at "plenty of ways" in your previous post. Great that you figured out a method for your full keeper in favorable conditions.