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Old 04-09-2008, 13:58   #1
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ANOTHER REQUEST FOR INPUT

Hi everyone,

My wife and I had a plan to go sailing 10 years after our first child was born (our ten year plan, and actually it was HER idea). We have been hanging out at the yacht club and talking to all the long term cruisers that come through. From some of them we get the advice to go sooner rather than later so recently we decided to leave as soon as humanly possible.

A friend of a friend is selling their boat - prepped for long term cruising, but it is 800km's away so I would like to get input before going to see it. It popped up 'out of the blue' in a conversation with non sailing friends and the timing, although early as we haven't looked seriously yet, seems like.... destiny (strange feeling). We have been shopping the boating magazines and internet for a year, but haven't looked at physical boats as we live a long way from any significant ports. (not much goes on here, we drive 400km's for a weekend of dinghy sailing and get about 10-30 cruisers a year through!)

I have been searching through old posts for answers, but as I see from the replies of the experienced people - 'A boat needs to be right for person/family and the circumstances that it will be used for'. I agree, but also would like some feedback about this boat.
OK so no one here knows me - I have some sailing experience (over 20000NM, 3 trans-atlantic one as skipper, 3 years working charter boats in NE US, Caribbean and South America). My wife loves to sail and is going to beat me in Laser racing some time soon, and the kids (3 and 5, both girls) also enjoy being on a boat in the water.

Circumstances of use - long term? (3-5 years) cruising, blue water, to see as much as we can and go as far as we can. Going all the way round would be nice, but not going to rush it so probably not really feasible.

Any input would be greatly appreciated:

Technical details
Design: Mauritius LOA: 43 (stretched to 45)
Hull: GRP
Designer: Bruce Roberts LWL: 32.6
Deck: GRP / Wood
Builder: Nebe Boats (reputable custom builder)
Draft: 1.50m
Keel: long cruising
Launched: 1986
Displ: 13 tons

Rig: Ketch, Bellamy aluminium mast, stainless steel standing rigging

Sails: Doyle, 1 Main, 3 (?) Genoas, Mizzen, Storm jib, mainsail and mizzen cover, spare sails

Winches: 9 Lewmar winches, 2 primaries, 2 secondaries, 2 mast and 2 mizzen, 2 winch handles

Engine: Yanmar 4JH3BE, 56 Hp at 3600 RPM, 250 l diesel storage in two stainless steel tanks, fitted in 2004, 6 105AH batteries, fuel filter water separator

Steering: Pedestal wheel steering, emergency tiller, Raytheon windvane, compass

Electrics and Electronics: Icom IC-M601 VHF, ICOM IC-M170 MF/HF Transreceiver, Magellan NAV 1200 GPS, Raymarine radar-GPSchartplotter,
Sea-me radar, weatherfax, echosounder, Raymarine anemometer, Air Marine
400 wind charger, 12V 190A alternator, 12V DC and 220V AC battery management system, shorepower connection, Denon DCT-670 music system, 2 solar panels

Summary of refitting:
The deck was fully replaced, including new hatches and portlights all throughout.
New rigging and sails were fitted.
The interior was redone, incl. freezer and fridge, Taylor paraffin stove, wet locker, new basins and toilets in heads and galley, new vinyl floor and lee cloths on all berths
Hot and cold water pressurised and manual systems, salt-water foot pumps, water
colorifier for water heater and new water filter for drinking water were fitted.
Electrical wiring was redone to accommodate fridge/freezer and battery charging system. This includes digital meters to monitor charging and charge status.
Water tanks and diesel fuel tanks were redone, new pushpit and pulpit were fitted.
New cowl vents and 2 solar-powered ventilators were fitted and customised shade cover over entire deck was made.
The canvas spray dodger is new and a folding table was fitted in the cockpit.
Navigation (radar, echosounder, chart plotter) and radio equipment are according to the latest specifications.



Accommodation:
teak interior
8 berths in 3 cabins, 2 doubles, 4 singles
2 heads, 1 (hot water) shower, 2 basins
new vinyl floor
wet locker in passage
lee cloths on all berths
4 kerosene lamps
barometer
2 clocks
Galley: Taylor CTK0230L paraffin stove and oven with two burners, 1 fridge and 1 freezer cooled by with Danfoss sealed compressor cooled with seawater cooling pump, macerator, Vetus water filter 330-25,
Plumbing: fresh and salt-water, hot water system, Whale foot pump and telescopic faucet salt water, Whale universal water press pump, Cleghorn
accumulator tank; 100 l holding tank, water heater colorifier
Safety:
11 life jackets and 2 harnesses, 2 life rings, 1 danbouy, 5 C&N flags,
3 anchors (Fortress FX-23, Spade S 140 galvanised steel, 1 warp, 1 chain, Lewmar H3 windlass
AVON liferaft (8 persons), 3 fire extinguishers, emergency navigation light, fire
blanket, 8 flares with refill

I know this is a long post - hopefully some one will get to the end and have some stamina left to reply.

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 14:53   #2
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Welcome to the forum

The boat sounds interesting, and has a good selection of toys. In some ways, the size is great, with the ability for each of your children to have their own cabin.

Will you and your wife each be able to cope with a boat of this size on your own

So the question really is, do YOU think you can cope.

Is the equipment in good condition.

Does the boat suit YOU.
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:03   #3
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I'd also add:

Trust your instincts.

You've spent enough time at sea with 3 trans-Atlantics and 3 years working charter boats to know if this is a good boat or not.

Thinking back to those times, try to recall what you liked and didn't like about boats you were on. Try to recall what caused a boat to feel safer/better at sea.

If this boat still seems right, make sure the recent work done was done correctly:

Is the new wiring in good shape and done to standard?
Is the new deck and are the new hatches all done properly and not leaking water into the wood part of the deck?
Is everything else you can check yourself mechanically sound?

If so, time for an offer and survey!
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:08   #4
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Sounds pretty liveable, except I would replace the parafin stove with a propane one. I didn't see that the genoa was roller furling, which would make sailing a lot easier. If the equipment is in good nick and you like the boat, add a backup handheld GPS, a few slabs of beer, and cut the dock lines!
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:10   #5
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Dear Martin,

Welcome to forum.... I concur with talbot...it sounds interesting and from the recent upgrades would, at first look, seem very well kitted out. You don't mention price...which could give an idea/assessment as to the age and state of the equipment... and ofcourse value. All that apart it could be the perfect boat for you. Why not try and arrange for a surveyor to do a quick short survey, with the promise that they will be give the authority to complete a full survey, if they consider the boat worthy for you to visit and if you and your wife like it.

Certainly on paper it sounds worthy of consideration. keep us posted as to the final outcome

regards

Alan
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:29   #6
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Thanks Robert, I agree with both you and Sully - sounds good that all the work was done, but only if it was done right...

After seeing how much was work had been done it kinda worried me. There are two reasons for doing that kind of work - the boat was scrap/crap beforehand so it had to be done (not good I think) or the owner was the careful type who thought through the potential problem areas and took action to make sure that they would be OK for long distance cruising(better than fantastic if this is the case)

SO far it seems like heading to the second scenario - The previous owner has a reputation for being 'a bit? of a perfectionist' which is good, and my dad is friends with the guy at the boatyard that did the work so I have asked him to find out as much as he can.

All being good with my dad's discussion with the yard - I would say the boat is worth a 1600km round trip to check it out. From your experience and entirely your own opinon (I won't hold you to it) - watermaker or not? I do not see too many marinas in our future cruise and remember 2 things from the past - 1 Lugging water to anchor/mooring is a major mission. 2 Running the engine/genset to run the watermaker when you didn't need water so that everything still worked the next time you wanted it. Ah trade-offs, and that doesn't include the money (always a factor).

Any other equipment that you would take with that's not there?

As for the coping part - that is always a serious concern. Fine when things are fine, but ... to tell you the truth I don't know the answer. My last crossing was South Atlantic - broke the boom on the second day but were too stubborn to head back. Storm got worse and we had 4 days serious weather - 3 on the boat one sick (fever in bed), one never been on the sea before and me, no autopilot and definitely NOT an offshore boat. So it was interesting, but I was young and didn't have a family on board!! I know I would never take chances like that again! You learn alot from your mistakes.

Thanks so much for your help (also from your previous posts, which have helped)
Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:35   #7
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Sounds like it may be time ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Sounds pretty liveable, except I would replace the parafin stove with a propane one. I didn't see that the genoa was roller furling, which would make sailing a lot easier. If the equipment is in good nick and you like the boat, add a backup handheld GPS, a few slabs of beer, and cut the dock lines!
Thanks Don - Genoa is roller furling (but why the extra's I asked myself?) I have no experence with parafin stoves (except for hiking where I use a good old US MSR stove and wouldn't use anything else). Been doing some back reading on this site and it seems like a mixed bag response around stove types. In the past used propane with all the safety features and been quite happy, so will check this one out. Probably depend on how the family like it more than me!

Thanks for the positive push.

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:42   #8
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The argument against parrafin in your case is your intended use of the boat.

Parrafin (alcohol) is available where you are now, but in many places of the world it is not available at anywhere close to a reasonable rate if available at all.

This is why (although I do enjoy using a parrafin stove same as propane), a propane/LPG stove is a better choice for cruising.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin25 View Post
Thanks Don - Genoa is roller furling (but why the extra's I asked myself?) I have no experence with parafin stoves (except for hiking where I use a good old US MSR stove and wouldn't use anything else). Been doing some back reading on this site and it seems like a mixed bag response around stove types. In the past used propane with all the safety features and been quite happy, so will check this one out. Probably depend on how the family like it more than me!

Thanks for the positive push.

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:50   #9
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How is your boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anglooff View Post
Dear Martin,

Welcome to forum.... I concur with talbot...it sounds interesting and from the recent upgrades would, at first look, seem very well kitted out. You don't mention price...which could give an idea/assessment as to the age and state of the equipment... and ofcourse value. All that apart it could be the perfect boat for you. Why not try and arrange for a surveyor to do a quick short survey, with the promise that they will be give the authority to complete a full survey, if they consider the boat worthy for you to visit and if you and your wife like it.

Certainly on paper it sounds worthy of consideration. keep us posted as to the final outcome

regards

Alan
Hi Alan,
Thanks for the good practical advice.
I see that you are cruising (in Venezuela) on a van de Stadt 42'. I was wondering how similar it may be to this other boat. Is she full keel? I am attaching a picture. If you think they may be similar, I hope you won't mind a couple of questions.Have you travelled far in her? If you were to do it again would you change boats? Anything else you may think helpful.

Thanks again
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Old 04-09-2008, 15:58   #10
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Thanks Sully I will check it out - I had thought paraffin was the same as what we called kerosene when I was living in the US. Will have to check that... along with the million other things.

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 16:07   #11
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Quote:
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Thanks Sully I will check it out - I had thought paraffin was the same as what we called kerosene when I was living in the US. Will have to check that... along with the million other things.

Cheers
Sorry, Martin. I lost that one in translation (English to American). I think you are correct... it is kerosene.
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Old 04-09-2008, 16:29   #12
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Ok, thanks for letting me know. I have gotten myself in trouble in the US with the language problem... someone called my moonbag a 'fannypack' (in our language that would be something only a woman would have the required 'equipment' to carry)

I lived in Virginia for a while and they really could confuse me sometimes, more from their accent than anything else I think.

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:07   #13
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Just was looking at a older thread in provisioning about watermakers. If I am patient all my questions will be answered by 'back order' right here at this site!

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:18   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin25 View Post
It popped up 'out of the blue' in a conversation with non sailing friends and the timing, although early as we haven't looked seriously yet, seems like.... destiny (strange feeling).
Destiny - The irresistable force that propels you outward to achieve great things.

Fate - The irresistable force that inevitably sucks you inward to disaster.

Let's hope it's destiny calling!

I agree with the others. Your experience will hold you in good stead. Get a good survey and leave all the emotions at home...
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:35   #15
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Roberts 43-45

Sounds like a good boat. Deck leaks happen. A proper repair makes it ok. Does it look anything like this one (Roberts 43 built in S. Africa (attached), Our friends live on it (more than 7 years). Sturdy comfortable and sails well.
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