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Old 02-01-2015, 16:34   #211
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
So... if you put a new rudder , like the original on your boat... how long before it waterlogs also?
That's the advantage of inspecting and repairing your own....
Isn't it always an advantage to inspect and repair anything on a boat, if it's something you are capable of?

In our case, the original 30 year old rudder post was bent during Hurricane Ike. I figured it *might* be time for a replacement. The Hunter 426 in the above was produced in 2006, so 8 years old. Any rudders out there that you wouldn't bother with inspecting after 8 years?

It seems to me that too many people just don't treat a rudder like it's a critical part of their boat. If standing rigging should be replaced after 10 years, how long should a rudder last, considering the loads put on it, and being submerged in salt water for it's entire lifespan?

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Old 02-01-2015, 17:04   #212
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

Some of the posts here have missed the point that this is a composite rudder stock. While I don't know the details of the Hunter build, these are typically built with the rudder halve moldings directly bonded to the stock.

Anyway, it won't be bending, or rusting, or breaking webbing or welds, etc.

Mark
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Old 02-01-2015, 17:09   #213
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

Mark is right about the composite stock, my cruising friend told me that when he saw the rudder on the Hunter 450 the stock looked like the center of a roll of toilet paper unwinding.
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Old 02-01-2015, 17:12   #214
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

If is Fg , is worst, since Hunter stop making composite stocks and call all the Hunter owners to replace the composite stock for a ss replacement,
seriously those Hunter FG stocks looks really funy... Toilet paper you call it?
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Old 02-01-2015, 18:31   #215
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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shorter the rudder more the weather helm problems... coronado had short rudders, and much weather helm.
(snip)

Isn't weather helm strictly a matter of the relationship pf CE to CLR, having nothing to do with the size/length/position of the rudder? True, if sail choice or poor design results in weather helm issues, a bigger rudder is going to help combat it---but that's a different matter.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:16   #216
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Re: Another Hunter Rudder!

Does anyone know how many Hunter rudder failures have actually occurred? We know about the 16 or so using the composite shafts but what about the others?? Maybe Smack can get in here with his Google experience.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:58   #217
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
If is Fg , is worst, since Hunter stop making composite stocks and call all the Hunter owners to replace the composite stock for a ss replacement,
seriously those Hunter FG stocks looks really funy... Toilet paper you call it?
I have a composite rudder stock on my Hunter. I have not been told by Hunter or anyone else that it should be changed to s/s. Could you provide reference to your statement please ?

I talked to the Hunter factory about the strength of the composite stocks. They told me when they tested the strength of a composite stock they broke the test jig that had been used for years to bend the S/S stocks.

I saw a Hunter in St Augustine a couple of years back that had the bottom third of the rudder missing. The yard doing the repair said because the rudders are almost as deep as the keel the bottom third are sacrificial in case of a hard grounding, the boat can still be motored or sailed.

It would be interesting to know how many rudders have failed. Considering the the number of boats Hunter builds 16 is a tiny number. They built over 500 of just our model, it was only produced for 3 years. I would think if there was a rudder or rudder stock problem the forums at Hunterowners.com would know about it. It is open for anyone to search.

Bob
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:12   #218
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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I have a composite rudder stock on my Hunter. I have not been told by Hunter or anyone else that it should be changed to s/s. Could you provide reference to your statement please ?

I talked to the Hunter factory about the strength of the composite stocks. They told me when they tested the strength of a composite stock they broke the test jig that had been used for years to bend the S/S stocks.

I saw a Hunter in St Augustine a couple of years back that had the bottom third of the rudder missing. The yard doing the repair said because the rudders are almost as deep as the keel the bottom third are sacrificial in case of a hard grounding, the boat can still be motored or sailed.

It would be interesting to know how many rudders have failed. Considering the the number of boats Hunter builds 16 is a tiny number. They built over 500 of just our model, it was only produced for 3 years. I would think if there was a rudder or rudder stock problem the forums at Hunterowners.com would know about it. It is open for anyone to search.

Bob
Imagine if 16 out of 500 aircraft built lost their wings, how many passengers do you think would get on those aircraft??

That aside there has been problems with these rudders and I don't think any manufacturer of any volume is using this method anymore but that doesn't mean yours will fail.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:15   #219
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pirate Re: Another Hunter Rudder!

So now we've covered everything.. does anyone know anything about Raku...
She's been quiet awhile.. missing her posts..
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:55   #220
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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Originally Posted by BobH260 View Post
I have a composite rudder stock on my Hunter. I have not been told by Hunter or anyone else that it should be changed to s/s. Could you provide reference to your statement please ?

I talked to the Hunter factory about the strength of the composite stocks. They told me when they tested the strength of a composite stock they broke the test jig that had been used for years to bend the S/S stocks.

I saw a Hunter in St Augustine a couple of years back that had the bottom third of the rudder missing. The yard doing the repair said because the rudders are almost as deep as the keel the bottom third are sacrificial in case of a hard grounding, the boat can still be motored or sailed.

It would be interesting to know how many rudders have failed. Considering the the number of boats Hunter builds 16 is a tiny number. They built over 500 of just our model, it was only produced for 3 years. I would think if there was a rudder or rudder stock problem the forums at Hunterowners.com would know about it. It is open for anyone to search.

Bob


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Old 04-01-2015, 08:52   #221
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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Imagine if 16 out of 500 aircraft built lost their wings, how many passengers do you think would get on those aircraft??

That aside there has been problems with these rudders and I don't think any manufacturer of any volume is using this method anymore but that doesn't mean yours will fail.
The aircraft "example" is pretty weak. But if a problem with a wing was known they would replace them, not scrap the whole plane.

So Hunter used a method that didn't work out and they recalled and replaced the rudders. This ends the story!
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:08   #222
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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The aircraft "example" is pretty weak. But if a problem with a wing was known they would replace them, not scrap the whole plane.

So Hunter used a method that didn't work out and they recalled and replaced the rudders. This ends the story!
Did they actually replace all the glass rudder shafts or just the ones that failed??? I say that because when any other business does recalls after they find a defect in the manufacturing process they recall all the products that were built in such a way as to cause failures whether now or in the future. I thought of this when I read a blog of a cruising couple in the SP that had lost their rudder on their Hunter and were trying to decide how and where to make repairs at what seemed to be at their own expense. So if there was a recall how could they have been missed as well as this fellow on our forum who just asked the question??
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:47   #223
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Re: Another Hunter Rudder!

Boeing has a jig they cycle the wing tip up and down to it's extreme working limits something like a million times. (OK, maybe half a million.. I cant remember) Then they disassemble it and inspect it, then do any needed design changes, then test it again...
Now if boat manufacturers would do that with their keels and rudders we would know what works!
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:28   #224
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter Rudder!

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So Hunter used a method that didn't work out and they recalled and replaced the rudders. This ends the story!
It would, had Hunter actually recalled the composite rudders and replaced them, but.... THEY DIDN'T. Instead the company refused to admit there was a problem, didn't even notify the owners or take any responsibility whatsoever. Yes, our Hunter 450 also had one of the composite rudders. The company couldn't even tell us over the phone if ours was one of the ones effected, we had to drop the rudder during a survey and figure it out for ourselves.






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Old 04-01-2015, 11:35   #225
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Re: Another Hunter Rudder!

Phil's is the shop I was thinking of too. Haven't dealt with them but have heard their name come up multiple times, all good. IIRC they are using cad/cam to sculpt foam profiles, before the usual hand layup over it.
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