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Old 08-02-2014, 23:22   #181
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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If someone was stupid enough they could tear up an Oyster or an HR, but costing what they do, that filters most first owners out, but if you look especially for a "comfortable boat the wife likes" and money is an object as in this economy it is more than ever, a Hunter comes out looking pretty good.
I fully realize the limitations of the boat and for me it's a boat to have for five years and learn to sail. It's to be a day sailing / weekend coastal cruising boat. and it will be in it's slip if the weather is bad.
A Hunter is the Chevrolet of boats, and there is nothing wrong with that, it's no Porsche and in many ways there are advantages to that
Great point. If you can find one in great condition, it makes a lot of sense. The key is to be realistic about what you're going to do with it. It may well be that the light air performance is just as important for your use as it's ability to round the cape.

That may allow you to get a bigger/newer boat that will help win over your wife to the sport.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:39   #182
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

A64Pilot...The process you're going thru is called value shopping, trying to get the most boat for the least money. This is the main market place for all lower priced, high value sail boats. Bennt, Jean, Bavaria, Cat and Hunter and several others all are building boats/or have built for you and your wife.
These companies have zeroed into your needs and desires and all of them should have products and price ranges that will suit you. Enjoy the search, as you learn more you and your wife should put together a list of items/features/mechanics etc that you want on your boat so that as you view them you can see how it checks out.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:27   #183
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

Robert,
Your correct, this is to be our first sailboat. Truth is even though we think we know what we want and what is important to us in a boat, we don't. Not really. we can't as we have never spent any time on one and have no experience.
I look at this like my first car. Get a decent nice run of the mill used one, learn how to drive and maintain it, learn what the costs really are, and of course you learn by making mistakes
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:53   #184
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

I'm been sailing a B&R rig for 3 years and never have had a problem with weather helm or sail balance. I find the rig much easier to sail and balance than the standard rig on my last boat. I normally would consider having to have more than 5 degrees rudder as unusual on my boat, which doesn't sound like a problem to me.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:11   #185
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

A64pilot..try to purchase a boat that has a following. This will help you sell it quicker when you start shopping for boat #2 because that is typically what happens as you gain more and more knowledge and become terribly opinionated like the rest of us.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:48   #186
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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Kenomac, I don't know who your rigger or tuner is on your 450, but most folks tune them with too much aft rake.

On the B&R the diagonals take the place of the inner forestay and the lowers with the swept spreaders take the place of the running backstays. If the mast bend is right for the sail cut (adjusting the diagonals with the shrouds and stays loose), and you have no lee falloff at the top of the mast above the top spreaders on a tack, then the uppers are fine. And all you have to do is take some rake out of the mast to fix your weather helm. That part is no different than a conventional rig. A good rigger or tuner who is familiar with the B&R should be able tune the weather helm out within an hour sailing her in a decent 15-20kt breeze.

The B&R was never really designed for exceptional downwind performance. It's designed for a reach where it really excels.

Warren Luhrs won the OSTAR in the early 80's sailing that rig, which was pretty much experimental at the time. Luhrs, of course, went on to found Hunter and he was somewhat of a visionary and firmly believed in that rig. Interestingly, it is also used on the British Hunters and when Luhrs founded Hunter USA he sold his boats as Legend Yachts in the UK. A lot of that early heritage and Luhr's influence has stuck in various Hunters over the years, while others have fallen by the wayside. One thing that stuck was that B&R rig. I like it and even though it's elegantly simple, it's not that easy to understand how to tune it.

Simple? no, is far more complicated, i call this kind of rig a monomaran rig because it take the principle of catamaran rigs, no backstay, big main small headsail, in catamarans the prebend is reach it tensioning the diamond and the upers act like a backstay in some way, in the B&R rigs is the uppers working like a backstay but the angle is smaller, so the uppers in a hunter work really hard , 2 basic problems in this kind of rig is where the builder choose to fit a inmast furling, saying that the inmast furling mast is normally set straight , prebend and rake is bad in a inmast furling but at the same time the b&r rig need rake and prebend to keep the forestay tight, so you see the contradiction, for the rigger is more dificult to tune this kind of rig because he need to reach the proper tension without harm for the inmast furling , i say it before , where is the benefit?? to have a big roach mainsail with no backstay in between? well not always a good thing , special in a monohull, get a big roachy mainsail mean a big long boom , downwind sailing is compromised , reefing is far more important with such a big mainsail, in big winds or just to try to balance the sailplan , preventers for the main is the norm, and in the Hunter the boom is placed hig, no doubt , is a real killer , off the wind perfomance is killed, the need for a chute or gen make the thing complex, and without backstay is kind of humm you know , as far i know few builders choose this kind of rig, thats why we dont see often B&r rigs out there, you can get a big roachy mainsail with a self tacking jib in a conventional rig with proper backstays and no crisscrosed diamond patern wires without mention the strusts in the mast base in some models.
Cheers.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:08   #187
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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A64pilot..try to purchase a boat that has a following. This will help you sell it quicker when you start shopping for boat #2 because that is typically what happens as you gain more and more knowledge and become terribly opinionated like the rest of us.

I plan to, I think theHunter's at least in Fl seem to sell well. Truth be know if i could have found a good buy on a Catalina, I'd rather have one, but I couldn't. Made an offer on this boat yesterday, It's by far the best kept boat I could find, and I drove 1100 miles just this weekend alone looking
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003...s#.UveLI3-9KSM

Now, don't any of you guys go buy it out from under me
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:19   #188
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

Aside from the B&R rig I'm not a fan of deeply swept back spreaders which seems to be in vogue now. I think its like brass sea cocks as the new swept back spreader rigs are much cheaper to build (fewer wires and plates) They are just fine for going upwind as the rigging presents less drag and less weight aloft but for trade wind sailing they are not as good. Can't get the mainsail all the way out and even with lots of vang your sails get chafed by the spreader ends. Yes you can put patches on your sails to reduce the chafe and you should. I like the extra security of double lowers and the ability to wing the main right out when sailing DDW. The main only partially winged out adds helm in stronger winds which is another drawback, works the autopilot to death in stiff breezes and larger seas. Wind vanes do not like the helm created with the main not winged out far enough.
Some folks will give me a lesson about sailing DDW and I have done enough racing to know that on the race course DDW is often the slow way to get to the next mark but when your sailing offshore in the trades and your destination is DDW then it is just as fast or more often faster when doing hull speed. The best strategy for short handed cruisers with swept back spreaders is to forget about the main all together and fly twin headsails.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:19   #189
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pirate Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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... Made an offer on this boat yesterday, It's by far the best kept boat I could find, and I drove 1100 miles just this weekend alone looking
2003 Hunter 356 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Now, don't any of you guys go buy it out from under me
Ya gotta know this has happened.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:27   #190
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

A64pilot...that Hunter looks very clean but one would have to see it in the flesh. For its size it is very well laid out with a larger than normal galley and the rest of the boat seems to function quite well. I can see why this boat is attractive to you and your wife, let us know how you make out..Good Luck!
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:32   #191
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

Yes, but this boat has been on YachtWorld for at least a couple of months now and he hasn't had from my understanding any offers. He started out trying to sell it for a LOT more himself with I'm sure no hits at all, surely my post won't generate much if any interest.
It's unbelievable what some of these absentee owners from New Jersey or wherever they are from think a boat is worth. I looked at one ( a 36 Hunter) that had been reduced from 115K to 99K that as soon as you opened the companionway you were hit by the overpowering stench of mold, everything inside was covered in mold, and once I could get one of the sole boards up, (they were warped shut from moisture) the bilge was full of water. I told the listing Agent the bilge was full of water, obviously the float switch was inop as I turned to bilge to manual and pumped the water out, her answer was it was like this last time I showed it.
Unbelieveable, she should go to jail allowing thousands of dollars damage to occur to a boat when $100 would prevent it.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:50   #192
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The last survey I paid for was a Canadian boat. The "surveyor" didn't find that the holding tank was full and frozen while the boat was laid up for the winter. Maybe I'm just too picky but I wouldn't mind getting that $800 back.

I'm doing all readers a favor by not telling any more of the story.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:51   #193
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

A64Pilot..There are always reasons when a particular boat is not getting any real attention by buyers. I will add this..the sub 36 foot market is a fairly cool market and when you go below 30 feet its outright cold. The people buying most of the boats today are the baby boomers and most of them are shopping for boats 40 foot plus so if this boat appeals to you then you may be in a good position on final price. Remember when your buying your also selling so you want to buy it at a price you are confident that you'll be able to sell at sometime in the future because the likely hood is very high. Cheers
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:59   #194
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

I believe the naysayers in this thread need to get out sailing more and spend less time in front of a computer. My Hunter has the B&R rig and I love this boat! Period.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:04   #195
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Re: ANOTHER Hunter rudder!

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I believe the naysayers in this thread need to get out sailing more and spend less time in front of a computer. My Hunter has the B&R rig and I love this boat! Period.

This next week, monday to friday doing rigging work, we have a lagoon to replace the furler and a Bavaria to replace thr rigging, Saturday im doing a solo delivery for dream yacht charter to BVI, ill be back sunday.
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