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Old 12-01-2015, 08:41   #106
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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"How many member/owners of post 2008 and up to 2010 Oceanis 40 and 43 models have been contacted by their dealer offering the significant modification to the top of the rudder post assembly.
I wonder if that was ever posted on the Beneteau owners group site?
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:45   #107
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

What about the Oceanis 50 , how many Oceanis are sailing out there, 1000. 2000.?
How many owners read fórums?
WTF!!!
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:48   #108
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
It seems you are the first to recognize that the rudder on your Moody is not well designed and suffer premature wear.

I don't know what is your point.

Any NA or boat builder can get it wrong. The good ones make a recall and pay everything, some others make a recall but make the owners pay part of it (Hunter). On the Moody case it is known that they have some problems with the rudders (what you say and also premature wear on the waterproof seals) no recall was possible since Moody bankrupted.
My friend when a boat is not maintained and the lip seals on the rudder shaft start to leak after 20 years it is so far down the list of concerns that it seems very petty to even bring it up when you are comparing it to a full on structural failure of another builders boat. A leaking lip seal is a little bother a times, when the whole bloody structure supporting your rudder goes at sea it could be life threatening(as in Blue Pearl) I don't for a moment think all new boats are built to the same standards as this one but I also don't believe that all the new boats built down to a price are solid as a rock either.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:49   #109
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Now thank you for the link, , that only explain one thing, those Beneteaus rudder posts suck so bad , awful construction .... and where are those Bene fanatics now when i say in the rudder failure topic that this isue is a serious warning for those who own a Beneteau...??
This rudder assembly looks nothing like what I have on my 393. The recall information said 2008-2010 Bene 40 and 43's, although off of memory I thought that these models came into production starting 2007. I would certainly do a detailed check of my rudder regardless of model year if I owned the 40 or 43.

Neil, no doubt you have a great wealth of knowledge, but there's simply no way you can say all Bene's have this rudder issue, any more than a reasonable person can say that Bene's don't have some shortcomings/compromises. I know mine does, I could give a laundry list of things I would change, but it suits our needs well.

In the end, it is about knowing you boat.

Frank
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:56   #110
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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This rudder assembly looks nothing like what I have on my 393. The recall information said 2008-2010 Bene 40 and 43's, although off of memory I thought that these models came into production starting 2007. I would certainly do a detailed check of my rudder regardless of model year if I owned the 40 or 43.

Neil, no doubt you have a great wealth of knowledge, but there's simply no way you can say all Bene's have this rudder issue, any more than a reasonable person can say that Bene's don't have some shortcomings/compromises. I know mine does, I could give a laundry list of things I would change, but it suits our needs well.

In the end, it is about knowing you boat.

Frank
Yes sorry if i say Beneteau in general, i have no idea about the 393, could be nice if you please give us info about your rudder setup, just curious how is solved in the 393, but im 100% sure that the whole 2000 2012 Oceanis series , Cyclades, suffer from this OEM Fiasco. The new Oceanis , at least the 55 have doublé rudders... no idea with the new 2 rudders boats.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:08   #111
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Originally Posted by GeoPowers View Post
This rudder assembly looks nothing like what I have on my 393. The recall information said 2008-2010 Bene 40 and 43's, although off of memory I thought that these models came into production starting 2007. I would certainly do a detailed check of my rudder regardless of model year if I owned the 40 or 43.

Neil, no doubt you have a great wealth of knowledge, but there's simply no way you can say all Bene's have this rudder issue, any more than a reasonable person can say that Bene's don't have some shortcomings/compromises. I know mine does, I could give a laundry list of things I would change, but it suits our needs well.

In the end, it is about knowing you boat.

Frank
As an aside I was ready a thread on a Navel Architects forum and they said the Benni 393 was an exceptional design when it came to over all seaworthiness, much better than most of the fleet.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:30   #112
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Yes sorry if i say Beneteau in general, i have no idea about the 393, could be nice if you please give us info about your rudder setup, just curious how is solved in the 393, but im 100% sure that the whole 2000 2012 Oceanis series , Cyclades, suffer from this OEM Fiasco. The new Oceanis , at least the 55 have doublé rudders... no idea with the new 2 rudders boats.
The structure can be similar but the dimension of the pieces can be different in different models and that can make all the difference between being a reliable structure or not.

Your continuous bashing about Beneteaus in a generalized way is ridiculous. I had posted about several Beneteaus made on those years that circumnavigated without any rudder problem. Obviously that would not be possible in boats that had severe structural rudder problems.

If I was from Beneteau and read all what you have said about Beneteau rudder fiasco on all boats from 2000 to 2012 I would put you a law suite for slandering.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:32   #113
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Doesn't this happen all the time around the UK and western France? Boats sit on their keels twice daily when the tide goes out. The couple didn't run aground...
The marina I'm in is pretty shallow and when we get a lower than normal tide combined with the right winds, my boat sits on it's keel and rudder, along with almost all the other sailboats in the marina. You can turn the wheel and it rocks the boat side to side.

I'd be extremely upset if my rudder were to break due to something like this and it was deemed "operator error".
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:39   #114
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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The structure can be similar but the dimension of the pieces can be different in different models and that can make all the difference between being a reliable structure or not.

Your continuous bashing about Beneteaus in a generalized way is ridiculous. I had posted about several Beneteaus made on those years that circumnavigated without any rudder problem. Obviously that would not be possible in boats that had severe structural rudder problems.

If I was from Beneteau and read all what you have said about Beneteau rudder fiasco on all boats from 2000 to 2012 I would put you a law suite for slandering.


They are really welcome to put me in any lawsuite , everywhere anytime,,,
My continuous Bene bashing is well founded dude, you just need to wacht and see by yourself those structural failures here and there..

I bet you you cant found a reliable Oceanis rudder structure right now...
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:40   #115
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post

If I was from Beneteau and read all what you have said about Beneteau rudder fiasco on all boats from 2000 to 2012 I would put you a law suite for slandering.
Opinion vs. fact, Polux!
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:53   #116
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

Law suite hahaha,,,, funy, you know , Zspar and selden have a pile of claims from us regarding failures and warnings , fax, emails, phonecalls, and some private owners involved with lawyers..... at the end we still doing what we do, solve problems and warn customers about bad products...
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:04   #117
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

1. Recall by Bene on rudders of two different models of one of their popular series;

2. Thread topic about a rudder failure on 3rd, larger model of same series that appears to be the result of a soft grounding but nobody knows for sure;

3. Informed opinion from goboatingnow that many modern production boats are not designed to be able to handle groundings;

4. Informed opinion from Neil that rudders on all sizes of Cyclade series of Bene's are built similarly; add'l opinion from Neil that Oceanis series are built identically, but the 393 is a much stronger, different type of build;

5. Settled fact that many areas of the world it is difficult if not impossible to avoid the type of soft grounding that appears to be involved in this thread topic (but not known for sure);

6. Well-settled fact that there are 1000's of these potentially affected Bene's with no reported problems, but equally accepted fact that most of them rarely leave the dock (like most boats); and,

7. Informed opinion from Polux & others that the rudder problem only affects an exceedingly small number of Bene's, likely limited to the two models subject to the factory recall.

Just thought it might help to summarize where the discussion appears to have advanced to at this point. If I've misstated somebody's opinions or gotten facts wrong, no offense intended. Just correct it and we can move along.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:10   #118
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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1. Recall by Bene on rudders of two different models of one of their popular series;

2. Thread topic about a rudder failure on 3rd, larger model of same series that appears to be the result of a soft grounding but nobody knows for sure;

3. Informed opinion from goboatingnow that many modern production boats are not designed to be able to handle groundings;

4. Informed opinion from Neil that rudders on all sizes of Cyclade series of Bene's are built similarly; add'l opinion from Neil that Oceanis series are built identically, but the 393 is a much stronger, different type of build;

5. Settled fact that many areas of the world it is difficult if not impossible to avoid the type of soft grounding that appears to be involved in this thread topic (but not known for sure);

6. Well-settled fact that there are 1000's of these potentially affected Bene's with no reported problems, but equally accepted fact that most of them rarely leave the dock (like most boats); and,

7. Informed opinion from Polux & others that the rudder problem only affects an exceedingly small number of Bene's, likely limited to the two models subject to the factory recall.

Just thought it might help to summarize where the discussion appears to have advanced to at this point. If I've misstated somebody's opinions or gotten facts wrong, no offense intended. Just correct it and we can move along.
Looks OK but shouldn't be confused with rudder failures as many boats have had a rudder bend or break off but no problem with the basic boat structure. Here we are talking about the basic boat structure and not the rudder itself, big difference in my mind.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:36   #119
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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Opinion vs. fact, Polux!
You mean that the fact that several of the Beneteaus built on the period that Neil says that they all have a fiasco rudder had circumnavigated without any rudder problem is not fact enough for you regarding abusive generalizations?

You guys really surprise me sometimes.
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:35   #120
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Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits

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You mean that the fact that several of the Beneteaus built on the period that Neil says that they all have a fiasco rudder had circumnavigated without any rudder problem is not fact enough for you regarding abusive generalizations?

You guys really surprise me sometimes.
You might think it an over-generalization or even an abusive one, Polux, but it still falls under the category of an opinion and not a fact that could potentially be slanderous and thus eligible for a lawsuit as you suggested. That's all I was responding to.

The fact that several of the boats Neil raised questions about have circumnavigated is certainly worth taking into account, but if the rudder problems are precipitated by some level of grounding as opposed to just hard ocean use, then I'm not sure how relevant it is. In fact, it may be even more troubling if a problem shows up after a long ocean passage and there's no history or evidence of a grounding.

I don't have the knowledge of all the different types of Bene's or most other boat brands that you, Neil & others have. All I know is that if I owned the two models in question but was unaware of the recall, I'd be grateful for reading about it in this thread. If I owned a similar model like the couple from the video, I'd definitely want to check it out and make some inquiries. And if I owned an Oceanis or a model with a similarly constructed rudder stock, I'd want to at least put a thorough inspection on my to-do list. I'm not sure what the big deal is beyond that, especially since I get the impression from Neil that it's a relatively easy fix.
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