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Old 15-10-2016, 17:50   #31
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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Originally Posted by gjorgensen View Post
You are correct - Bavaria acquired both in 2010.

Hi, new to CF
Actually, Dufour was controlled by Cantiere del pardo since 2001 and an investment group tried to take control of the Italian builder in 2005 which left Dufour in debts. Then in 2010 Bavaria took control of Cantiere del pardo for 40 millions but because of some crisis in the boat market and Bavaria's new policy of re-focusing towards Germany, they left CdP which thus was forced to sell Dufour in 2013 (lack of ressources). Since then Dufour is self-owned and doing good again.
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Old 15-10-2016, 18:04   #32
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

It's interesting that most comments focus on interiors without much discussion of rig, hull shape, expected sailing capability, engine power, location and access, wiring and plumbing layout, etc. In 2005 I saw my first Hanse. The salesman recognizing my interest invited me back after the show closed that evening to open up all floorboards and inspect all systems. I followed up with a test sail a few weeks later and ended up ordering the new 37 that was just being developed.After 11 seasons I can assure you that Hanse is a great cruising boat with a real turn of speed. If your emphasis is racing look at the Dehler. All of the new Dehler introductions have recd rave reviews.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:05   #33
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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....
Unfortunately, I can't really look at the structural soundness of the boat, although I like to tug on winches and things to make sure they are solid.

When I look at the solid furniture of a boat like Hallberg-Rassy, I can't help but wonder the other way around - am I being fooled by the solid furniture when for all I know the boat isn't built much differently than the mass production boats? Would I be paying a lot of money just to add the extra weight of all that real wood? I have a feeling I'm going to have "buyer's remorse" no matter what boat I end up with.
....
You know, it is only the furniture, the quality of the sailing hardware is also very significant in a boat price (among other things). As you know Beneteau finished (or it seems so) with the First line but if the First 40 and the Oceanis 41 were both still around, if you didn't took that in consideration, you would never understand why the First 40 was substantially more expensive, having a simpler furniture and a smaller engine.

The Dehler 42/46 are quality boats as well as the Azuree 41/46. Don't know that if you can get the Azuree on the states but maybe you can have the Maxi 1200 that is made by Delphia. The Maxi 1200 is probably the boat that offer more quality for the price. It is a bit smaller since it is narrower but it is beautifully finished and the rest of the quality goes with the finish.

If you look at my blog you can have more information regarding those boats.

Some time ago I had also made two comparisons, one regarding 40/42 boats on the market, other regarding 45/50ft boats. Maybe you can get there some useful information about what you cannot see on a boat show.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:08   #34
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

It's been my experience that consistency in production quality is a very rare quality in a production line. Just because boat 101 came off the line perfect, doesn't mean that boat 102 will be perfect.. in fact it could be horrible. Buying a new boat off the line and then being expected to pay to fix major issues is unacceptable.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:15   #35
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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... If your emphasis is racing look at the Dehler. All of the new Dehler introductions have recd rave reviews.
Dehler is not a racing boat. The basic version that they call cruising is just that, a performance cruising boat not even a cruiser racer. Then they have another version that they call race, more for publicity reasons than to anything else. That one would not do well (at least in real time) on top events but it is adequate as a club racer.

Even equipped with carbon spars and top specs the Dehler is not the type of boat that is used more for racing then for cruising, like it would be a J111 or a C&C41, but I know that this is an European vision that can differ from an American one.

Bottom point: the Dehler is a great cruising boat. Some Hanse are also great cruising boats, including the older 37, the new 31, the new 34 among others.
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Old 17-10-2016, 18:14   #36
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

You should check out Sailing Television Show - Distant Shores TV they sail on a southerly.
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Old 22-10-2016, 17:33   #37
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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You should check out Sailing Television Show - Distant Shores TV they sail on a southerly.
Unfortunately i think they are no more. I have no news that they have recovered from the 2th bankruptcy:
Jobs lost as Itchenor yacht builder folds - Chichester Observer
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Old 22-10-2016, 17:44   #38
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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Unfortunately i think they are no more. I have no news that they have recovered from the 2th bankruptcy:
Jobs lost as Itchenor yacht builder folds - Chichester Observer
At the boat show, the salesman explained to me that Southerly is still there and still making boats. According to him, Southerly is controlled by NorthSails, and they decided to scale down production and keep fewer permanent workers on. Apparently the reason is the UK's labor laws made it difficult to let people go during times when orders on new boats were down, so they just scaled down altogether.
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Old 23-10-2016, 14:38   #39
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

Inquiring minds wish to know! Marlow-Hunter was absent from Annapolis this year, any body know if there is an issue with company health or just the hurricane timing? Any scuttlebutt at all? Was thinking about ordering a 50' boat, would love buy from a US manufacturer! Anything?
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Old 23-10-2016, 17:32   #40
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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At the boat show, the salesman explained to me that Southerly is still there and still making boats. According to him, Southerly is controlled by NorthSails, and they decided to scale down production and keep fewer permanent workers on. Apparently the reason is the UK's labor laws made it difficult to let people go during times when orders on new boats were down, so they just scaled down altogether.
Maybe, but you better not believe in all a dealer says to you.

Don't take me wrong I like Southerly yachts and I wish they can make a comeback, but the facts are that there is no Northsails statement saying that they took over Southerly (and that means paying their debts) neither any statement by Southerly stating that the situation has changed.

Southerly has been absent from European boat shows for 2 years or so and if you check you will see that there is no new Southerly for sail on the market and that the 57ft boat on the Annapolis boat show was not a new one, but a used boat for sale.
Southerly boats for sale - YachtWorld

But something is changing and after 2 years inactivity on their website they now offer maintenance services:
Southerly - News - Northshore Shipyard - Yacht Services
But that is a long way of new boats being built in a regular basis.

I will look for them in Dusseldorf boat show (the world's biggest). If they are not there with a stand selling new boats (and not only maintenance services) then the situation has not changed but maybe North Sails is considering buying Southerly and take it out of misery for the 2th time.
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Old 23-10-2016, 21:40   #41
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

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Maybe, but you better not believe in all a dealer says to you.

Don't take me wrong I like Southerly yachts and I wish they can make a comeback, but the facts are that there is no Northsails statement saying that they took over Southerly (and that means paying their debts) neither any statement by Southerly stating that the situation has changed.

The salesman claimed that NorthSails always owned Southerly, so it wasn't a change. However, I am just repeating what I heard, I don't vouch for it one way or the other.
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Old 24-10-2016, 02:52   #42
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Re: Annapolis Saillboat Show (monohull thoughts)

[QUOTE=Rohan;2234491******* with the nav station on the port side (european boats are already trying to make nav stations slowly disappear, but that only adds insult to injury*******). [/QUOTE]

I agree, this is terrible. I tend to look at boats where the bigger the nav station the better.
And I hate it when Nav stations are looking sideways or even worse backways.
IMHO a nav station should not only be a place for making navigation plans. It should also be the place where to control all aspects of the boat from inside. Even greater if it could be complementing with being a place for office work etc.
My favourite nav stations

Monohull with visual/DS:
Garcia 52 Exploration
Moody 54DS
Garcia 45 Exploration

Monohull without visual:
Hanse 575

Catamaran:
St Francis 50
Tag 60
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