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Old 04-03-2013, 06:30   #31
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

I think a riding sail is a good idea, however under hurricane conditions I have my doubts. Even a gale may be too much?
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:43   #32
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

Don't think a gale would be too much if the sail is designed right and if it is not too large.

Yesterday watched an accidental jib unfurl in 60kts + gusts. Much noise, but little damage. I also sailed our boat in a bad storm under double reefed main (320 grams, SA approx 5 sq m - hence my guess that a not to big and well cut riding sail (look towards the wedge shaped two ply sails) should be a safe and reliable tool.

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Old 04-03-2013, 06:59   #33
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

I do think a wedge shaped riding sail would be preferred over just a flat mounted sail on the stern. I found that a bridle helps limit the movement back and forth, but doesn't eliminate it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:06   #34
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
I do think a wedge shaped riding sail would be preferred over just a flat mounted sail on the stern. I found that a bridle helps limit the movement back and forth, but doesn't eliminate it.
What you want is tie a long snubber to the chain out past the roller, then lead it around the rigging to a genoa winch in the cockpit and put it in the self-tailer. Now let out more chain so that the snubber starts to take up load. This will start to put the boat at an angle to the wind and it won't tack anymore, If it still does, increase the angle more. You can adjust until you're backwards to the wind, have fun
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:08   #35
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
I do think a wedge shaped riding sail would be preferred over just a flat mounted sail on the stern. I found that a bridle helps limit the movement back and forth, but doesn't eliminate it.
A wedge eliminates the sail function and the device becomes an air drogue. It is very stable, does not flog and creates plenty of drag at zero lift.

Why do you think a flat sail is better? When aligned with the wind, would it not flog itself to shreds?

One of those winter nordic storms could be a good time to test two rigs side by side. Come next morning see which survived.

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Old 04-03-2013, 07:30   #36
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

An interesting read on the topic, which is from a Soundings magazine (USA) cover story by Tom Neale several years ago.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf How_to_Survive_a_Storm_at_Anchor.pdf (371.6 KB, 67 views)
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:36   #37
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

Does it improve things if rather than lead the rode to the bow roller I lead it to an attachment located right at the WL?

Angle will be slightly better but what I mean is there will be an extra length of rode underwater that the boat will have to drag across if she wants to sail/tack.

Or would this amount of extra drag be insignificant?

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Old 04-03-2013, 07:39   #38
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

Barnakiel, you must have misread my post concerning the wedge shaped riding sail.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:50   #39
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

Any wind at all and you will find anchoring by the stern untenable as per Kentwell post above.This is just poor advice. Maybe some deranged naval architect could design a craft whereby stern anchoring would be preferable in a gale, but I bet that craft would sail better stern first as well.
Think about it,with increasing wind strength you anchor is more likely to drag and then whatcha gonna do? Getting a dragging anchor up while running down wind and unable to turn upwind for retrieval since drag on stern will prevent bow from coming around ;ain't gonna happen.Best you could hope for is to be blown into deeper water with lots of sea room after missing all the other boats on your way out of the harbor. Then you could start your engine and back up to retrieve your anchor and of course the now panicked captan will remember to avoid fouling his rode while going astern into the larger waves due to increasing fetch in this gale. i actually saw a pretty Bristol sloop fill and sink in relatively benign conditions when it picked up a lobster pot on its prop and dragged onto State beach on Block I.. Dragging pot killed engine and prevented turning away from beach .Boat hit soft sand bow on, and waves over the stern filled boat in minutes. Crew safely waded ashore but boat was a total loss after filling .Looters got anything valuable that night.
Guess who had to pay to have the wreck removed?

Some learn from others and some just have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.

Love you all........Mike
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:05   #40
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

My sentiments perzackly Mike! Well said and well put!
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:13   #41
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
Barnakiel, you must have misread my post concerning the wedge shaped riding sail.
Indeed, I did. Moronic of me. Apologies!

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Old 04-03-2013, 08:35   #42
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

In a small yacht I used to own many years ago I used to anchor from the stern reasonably often as the single solar panel was shaded quite badly from some sun angles.
It's also, sometimes, a good way to optimise the view.
The biggest problem was that that several times a day other yachts would come over to investigate what the problem was.
They did tend to anchor further away, which was a bonus.

The boat was more stable, but the windage and particauly the wave force was naturally much higher and I always went back to the normal way in strong winds.
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Old 04-03-2013, 15:57   #43
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

You are correct that running your engine ahead probably made things worse. I really dislike being told by people that when it gets really bad, they will just use their engine to help hold them in place, it works on some boats but not most. Reversing does often help as you suggest, I have done this with success in very short but very gusty thunderstorms, it would not be my preferred method for a longer storm. Many other contributors have mentioned good things above.

A second anchor can really help keep the bow in place.

What you really need is a way to provide a force perpendicular to the wind direction at the bow, unfortunately your chain is at the wrong angle to do this. A drogue or bucket off the bow can help although it does take some movement for this to come into effect. I have often wondered whether a daggerboard all the way forward would do the trick.

There are also things that you can do in general to try to make your boat behave better. The key is to reduce windage forward. Roller furled headsails are a big source of this so roll them as tight as you can and don't carry more than you need.
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Old 04-03-2013, 16:05   #44
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Re: Anchoring in a Gale

The Pardeys claim and present a detailed argument that having your anchor rode lead from the end of a bowsprit reduces yawing at anchor, though I have never quite understood the theory. I have found that leading your anchor line from a bow eye near the waterline helps quite a bit. I keep a nylon snubber always tied on there so I can tie the other end on the chain at deck level, then let out enough chain to ride on the snubber. It also reduces the length you need in order to get decent scope, which can be handy in a tight anchorage. I don't use the bow eye regularly, but it is another tool for certain situations. Also, very quiet--no snubber rubbing back and fort on your bow roller.
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Old 04-03-2013, 16:11   #45
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The Pardeys claim and present a detailed argument that having your anchor rode lead from the end of a bowsprit reduces yawing at anchor, though I have never quite understood the theory. I have found that leading your anchor line from a bow eye near the waterline helps quite a bit. I keep a nylon snubber always tied on there so I can tie the other end on the chain at deck level, then let out enough chain to ride on the snubber. It also reduces the length you need in order to get decent scope, which can be handy in a tight anchorage. I don't use the bow eye regularly, but it is another tool for certain situations. Also, very quiet--no snubber rubbing back and fort on your bow roller.
A bow eye is perfect engineering as it not only reduces scope requirement but it is also the strongest point aboard. I hate it that I don't have one.
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