Anchoring Advice?

[Muscongus]

I did some reading about snubbers and that, also, seems like a solid idea. Everyone here has been giving great advice!

I have an opportunity to buy a 35# CQR next week for a few bucks more than the 45 cost. It'll be smaller (dimensions) and, so, hopefully easier to keep out of the way.

@ CCBullseye: Great insight about the event of my wife having to haul the anchor up. No way could she do that. On that same note, I should probably put her through some sailing lessons, just in case. She might take them better from a 'professional' rather than her novice Honey.

I was thinking of offering the 45#'er up for trade for a decent dingy. I've been using my father's and am giving it back after I haul out my boats.

The B24 is a little small to have a ton of anchor related gear on her. I don't want to install a windlass and I eant the anchor to look good, be user friendly, and to be low profile so it stays out of the way of the jib. Decisions, decisions....

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Muscongus

Decisions, decisions....

Before you make any final decisions, walk the docks and look at what your neighbors are using, especially the ones who spend a good amount of time on the hook. An anchor that performs well in one environment may perform poorly in another. If you're not planning to cruise your boat to far locales, then try to get the best anchor for your home cruising grounds.

By way of example, I would never use a plow (CQR or Delta) here in SF Bay because they don't tend to hold as well in our loose silt. Big deal! If that Bristol of yours isn't coming to SF Bay, don't worry about what anchor I'd choose.

[Muscongus]

The plows seem to be pretty popular here. I've seen a bunch of danforths, too.

I don't think I'll cruise too far in the Chanticleer - maybe 5-6 days at a time. At the most, to Cape Cod or Prince Edward Island/Nova Scotia.

I am taking some friends out on Saturday - I'll keep an eye out for anchor types.

:-)

[Cheechako]

Wow! has this thread gone on and on since I last looked. 35LB is way to big for your 24 ft boat... much less a 45 pounder. Remember, this forum is full of "round the world" cruisers or wannabees.... so a little biased toward overdoing it. Personally I wouldnt put a 35 lb anchor on a 24 ft boat even if I was sailing around the world!

[Muscongus]

I think that anchoring is an issue for all of us novices and that all of you long time cruisers are offering great advice for all of us.

[rtbates]

DO NOT ANCHOR OVER NIGHT WITH A DANFORTH... In a wind shift they pull out and 99% of the time will not reset.. They also foul in any kind of shell between the fluke and shaft. Good lunch hook MAYBE, overnight, forgetaboutit...

My old danforth put me on a beach twice before I quit using it and replaced it with a BRUCE, a REAL bruce not a Chinese knock off... I now use my old danforth to plug a hole in my fence that my dog used to dig out through. Works good for that and landing craft beach retrieval.

[Pete the Cat]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Wow! has this thread gone on and on since I last looked. 35LB is way to big for your 24 ft boat... much less a 45 pounder. Remember, this forum is full of "round the world" cruisers or wannabees.... so a little biased toward overdoing it. Personally I wouldnt put a 35 lb anchor on a 24 ft boat even if I was sailing around the world!

As someone who cruised Central America for a couple years, and who has spent the last few years here in Maine, I would have to agree with Cheechako. There is a school of thought (mostly fueled by the marketing folks) that if you pay $800 for an anchor it solve all your anchoring problems--uh no--a guy up here offered to trade his Rocna to me this summer after trying to anchor in a place where no anchor would hold due to a slick granite bottom (I was on a mooring). Tried to tell him, no use. Here is what you need: the right anchor for the situation (and a properly set CQR 35 for your boat is somewhat overkill you will pay for in retrieving "costs" -- it is also unsafe, IMHO, to have such a big anchor system that you might be reluctant to reset it if there is an issue in the middle of the night--you can never be absolutely sure that your anchor has not picked up a garbage bag or piece of lobster pot line (here in Maine--you are not going to be diving to check it) and---no matter what system you have--you will need to be able to reset) but a CQR is a great all around anchor (Danforth is great and maybe even better in mud than CQR, and a fisherman is what all the schooners use up here because they are good for rocks in Maine, you need a chain system (in Maine, you do need a good length of chain (at least as deep as the deepest water you expect to anchor in) because you do not want to wrap your nylon rode around a boulder and have it chafe through and you need some practice setting it. Frankly, some of the places you might choose to anchor up here (White Islands, Frenchboro) are so fouled with old lobster trap lines and/or kelp that no anchor is going to make it safe in a blow--even if you appear to set initially. If you were going around the world, you might go up to a 35 (and you would need a back up system or two) but for what you are saying you intend to do, Cheechako sounds like he has been there, done that. A lot of what you read on these sites is as Cheechako said: offered with good intentions, but from a framework that is not yours. Most of all, beware of the folks who read too many magazine ads and West Marine hype and actually believe that if you buy the "right" anchor you will not drag. Proper anchoring is at least as much a skill process as it is the right equipment. Some folks in this thread have made some excellent points on technique.

[rtbates]

Originally Posted by Muscongus

The plows seem to be pretty popular here. I've seen a bunch of danforths, too.

I don't think I'll cruise too far in the Chanticleer - maybe 5-6 days at a time. At the most, to Cape Cod or Prince Edward Island/Nova Scotia.

I am taking some friends out on Saturday - I'll keep an eye out for anchor types.

:-)

when looking at anchor types be advised that lots of those folks most likely never anchor out....Find out what type is used by folks who actually anchor out for long periods... You can usually tell by taking a close look at the anchor on their bow. Any mud, sand or signs of wear? Is it clean with no signs of wear? Look around where the shackle attaches for shiny indications that it's been under pressure...

[Kettlewell]

A couple of further thoughts. With all chain rode a nylon snubber is a necessity in all but the calmest conditions. 3/8" three strand nylon is plenty. Many disagree, but I use 3/8" on my 38-footer. The lighter line provides the spring you need. I have never snapped a snubber, and I have used 3/8" ones on my current boat in winds up to around 60 knots. I would make the line at least 20 feet long, but you will usually only have six feet or so out. You can use a rolling hitch to tie it to the chain or you can get a chain hook. The chain hook has the advantage that you can pull in some chain to take the load and the hook will fall off the chain, allowing you to increase scope quickly if you need to in the middle of the night. Using a rolling hitch I have occasionally had to let the whole thing go over the side when I needed to increase scope quickly, like with a thundersquall coming fast and no time to haul in chain, untie the rolling hitch, then let out chain and retie the rolling hitch.

Just for kicks I almost always pull in the chain hand over hand and the 45-lb anchor on my 38-footer, but I usually have to use a windlass to break out the anchor when I am right over it. Without a windlass you may have trouble pulling up a 45-lb or even a 35-lb anchor that is well dug in. You can shorten up scope as much as possible, and then try to motor slowly over the anchor, and that will sometimes pop it out, but there are times when it takes quite a few sessions of this, shortening up afterwards to gain a few inches, then motoring over it again, etc. This can happen in deep thick mud after a big blow. After Hurricane Bob it took me the better part of a day to slowly work two Fortress anchors up to the surface. Judging from the mud on the chain I estimate they were at least six feet down into thick mud.

That brings up the Fortress--absolutely the best secondary and kedge anchor available. For their weight they have the highest holding power of any anchor, but they are best if the pull stays in one direction. Due to their lightweight they are much easier to handle if you take one out in the dinghy. In some very tight Maine anchorages I would anchor solidly on my main anchor, then take a Fortress out in the dinghy to hold my boat from swinging into the rocks or other boats. I've used them numerous times to back up a permanent mooring during hurricanes or other major storms. A Danforth (get a genuine Hi Tensile one) is almost as good, though heavier for the same holding power. I would consider two anchors a minimum on any cruising boat, no matter what the size.

Yes, 35 lb is still overkill, but at least it is overkill you can probably handle with muscle power alone. I have done so on boats as big as 30 feet, though there were times when it was a real battle to get the anchor in without a windlass.

[Cheechako]

One of the biggest challenges of anchoring is wind shifts. Most anchors hold pretty well once set, although rocks or hard pan can really be a challenge at times. Danforth, Bruce, Delta, Fortress, CQR dont normally reset themselves after a wind shift. I'm unsure about the new anchor designs. The challenge is really not the type of anchor you use, as much as being aware... being aware that you are anchored in mud over hard pan, or eel grass in sand etc. Being aware of wind shifts or current shifts in the nighttime. Being aware of the challenges for your particular anchor type. Similar to many things in sailing I guess...

Just for kicks I almost always pull in the chain hand over hand and the 45-lb anchor on my 38-footer...
You're a better man than me!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

One of the biggest challenges of anchoring is wind shifts. Most anchors hold pretty well once set, although rocks or hard pan can really be a challenge at times. Danforth, Bruce, Delta, Fortress, CQR dont normally reset themselves after a wind shift.!

Limited experience but I spent a month anchored on the Connecticut River with a 45 lb Rocna. The tide changed twice a day which produced a reversing 2-3 kt current. As far as I could tell the anchor didn't move an inch. Of course it was an ideal bottom, hard mud/sand bottom so maybe not the toughest test.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Limited experience but I spent a month anchored on the Connecticut River with a 45 lb Rocna. The tide changed twice a day which produced a reversing 2-3 kt current. As far as I could tell the anchor didn't move an inch. Of course it was an ideal bottom, hard mud/sand bottom so maybe not the toughest test.

That's valuable info, but let's remember that the OP sails a Bristol 24 that displaces less than three tons. Let's also remember that he will not be working with a windlass, or anchoring in a hurricane zone, or....

[cfarrar]

Great ideas, folks, but maybe we can simplify for Dan. I'll come right out and say that for summer coastal cruising in Maine, on a 6000# boat, he'll be more than good with 25-30 ft of chain and a 25 lb anchor. My top choice would be a spanking new 10 Kg / 22 # Rocna, but that's not required, here. A 25# Delta, CQR, or Bruce will keep the Bristol in one place, assuming his anchoring technique is halfway solid, and he can put his hard earned money towards other things that are conducive to a good night's sleep in Maine - like hatch screens. And a fleece blanket. And wool socks!

[cheoah]

Yep this is a good thread, good points. For those of us that anchor primarily, or exclusively, it is incredibly important for anchoring to be effective, but also manageable and convenient. Here are some ah-ha's I've gotten from this thread:

1) get out and dink around to get a better perspective on how close other boats, etc are. Over time you'll get much better at judging distance, but your neighbors may not!

2) choosing a bigger anchor is something everyone seems to want to do if they have the gear (or muscles) to get it up. For my home cruising grounds, Mason Dixon and southward, I've only got to get the gear up 6-25' really, and so it is more about dragging the weight and windage of my boat forward until it is above the anchor. 45 lbs and the accompanying chain is more than I want to heave on vacation. As you are learning to anchor, you need to be quick to re-anchor if you didn't end up where you intended, or if it did not set properly, or if you discover you are in an unmarked local work boat channel, wind shift, etc. Being nimble with your ground tackle can be a real asset, so I think you are on the right track getting just the right sized gear for your Bristol, and using proper technique.

3) Finding out at the marina what people in your area use, or from this forum makes good sense. Sounds like CQR is just that, and while it's not the super-modern plow type everyone loves these days, it is the one you own, and they are affordable. While I'd love a modern plow type, CQR is what I have, doesn't drag when properly set, has re-set in reversing currents for countless nights, and rides well on a bow roller. The CQR 25 on my old boat was getting kind of sloppy and worn out when I sold the boat. I considered taking it off when I was selling the boat because it made the boat look heavily used.

4) Good, properly sized chain with accompanying three-strand nylon spliced on, or in your case just shackled on, is the way to go. From what I've read here in this thread, and from my own experience, the Acco G4 galvanized -- probably 5/16", is what you need. I've never used 1/4" chain, and I'm not sure that wouldn't force you to use a smaller shackle, but perhaps it could work. 5/16" has a good "hand" and weight to it, and is what I use on my 34 footer. Use good Crosby shackles, or comparable. Kettlewell has a good point with the nylon rode, and 3/8" or 1/2" max will serve your needs. The smaller the line, the more you can stuff in your anchor locker. Having more length to put out scope is always better, and of course having a boat lengths or more in chain is prudent. Using the best quality gear from end to end is the way to go. Actually I think they were talking snubbers with an all-chain rode, now that I recall. In the southeast, this is just not necessary, and the cost of good chain makes 200'+ of it out of my reach. Keeps my bow lighter too, but alas, one day I'll move the shorter chain to my secondary and buy a few hundred feet of chain for the primary for deeper anchorages, coral, etc.

5) A Danforth or Fortress is a popular secondary, stern, or kedge anchor. I recently hauled out a 33 lb Bruce by dinghy after the wind had piped up. Lets just say it was touch and go for a minute, but dinking out a big anchor in a little rubber dink is no small feat for a singlehander in a blow. I'm sure others are way better at it than me, but I had to be very intentional about it all and was patently obvious that I could end up in the water in just the right circumstances.

Hope you get to go out and drop the hook soon, whatever it weighs.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Bash

That's valuable info, but let's remember that the OP sails a Bristol 24 that displaces less than three tons. Let's also remember that he will not be working with a windlass, or anchoring in a hurricane zone, or....

No argument at all. I was just addressing the ability of a new gen anchor to reset.

Previous post I mentioned the problem I had dealing with an anchor that size with no windlass, and I was a much younger man at the time. Someone else I think pointed out that it could be a big problem for his wife if he was unable to pull the 45 lb anchor for some reason. To much anchor I think could be a risk factor and not a benefit.

I think 45 lbs especially with no windlass is overkill, even for someone like me that believes in overkill in anchors. If buying an anchor for that boat I would go with a 25-30 lb max and would go with a new gen anchor like Spade, Manson, Rocna or Mantus, which was my latest addition to the anchor collection.