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Old 10-10-2012, 15:50   #46
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

About that 45-lb CQR--is it a genuine CQR or just a generic plow-type anchor? Some of the knock offs appear to be OK, but others seem to have all the angles and dimensions wrong and don't hold well and/or they are structurally deficient. At that size on your boat the chances are good that it will hold you in almost anything, even if it isn't the genuine thing, but I would prefer a real CQR. I made the mistake of buying a knock off of a Danforth once and it was far inferior in holding power to the real thing.
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Old 10-10-2012, 16:05   #47
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If you have an iPhone, there's an app that will give you a little peace of mind. It's called Drag Queen and it works off the gps. If your boat strays from your pre-determined settings, an alarm will sound. It's free as well.
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Old 10-10-2012, 17:20   #48
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

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Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
I liked this post! Especially since I was recently anchored only a few hundred yards from Cormorant's "red dot" an woke to this status....



This is one reason why I like a full keel with a big rudder shoe! No damage and little concern on the small gravel and sand, but Cormorant's stern anchor would have suited me well!
You should not need a stern anchor at Jewell. You just need a little less scope and to anchor up the middle. No one else uses a stern anchor there, unless in the very off season, so you'd be stuck not swinging and everyone else would be..
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:27   #49
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

One point not to forget - without a windlass be sure you can pull that thing back up. Case in point is my rig - 27' Albin Vega. 25# CQR with 100' of chain and 100' of nylon - no windlass. Here in Alaska with the extreme tide changes I regularly have to anchor in 50 feet or more of water.

Let me tell you hoisting the anchor is a pretty rough effort in anything more than 50' of water, especially if the breeze or current is putting a load on the anchor.

I have never had it drag, and have been anchored in some decent winds.

Point being, I would trade that anchor down a bit (craigslist is wonderful) for one that would work well and still not kill you trying to raise it. It just depends on how much of a workout you want in the mornings.
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:32   #50
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

I would agree that a 45-lb genuine CQR is very serious overkill for that boat. The late great Eric Hiscock did state that he felt any CQR should be a minimum of 35 pounds in order to be effective, no matter what the size of the boat. I do think there is some sort of size effect--in other words, some anchors don't work well in smaller sizes. Note how often someone talks about how great their Bruce anchor is, and then you notice that it is about twice the recommended weight. I use 45-pounders on my 38-foot motorsailor, and it can be a bear to bring up in deeper water, but here on the East Coast I very rarely anchor in more than 20 feet and usually less. Of course in Maine you have to take into account the large tidal range so you might be hauling that thing up from some pretty deep water at times.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:04   #51
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

Same opinion: a 45# anchor plus 25-30 ft of 1/4" chain and you're talking about 65# of steel. The good news: you've got all winter, plenty of time to sell the CQR for a profit on Ebay while keeping a sharp lookout for an approximately 25 lb delta or something similar. Worse case you can hit the big spring sale at Hamilton Marine and get what you need, but I bet you find the perfect used anchor before then. Same with the chain and rode.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:15   #52
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So far, the anchorages I've seen have had 10 - 20' at low tide, which would put it at 18 - 28' at high, I believe (I've been lead to believe, anyway).

At this point, I don't think I'd have much trouble hauling the CQR up (by the way, it is a genuine CQR) - simple enough to one hand it into my pick-up, for instance.

I am a little concerned about how much impact that big thing is going to have with the jib, though. I hope I can mount it flat on the deck with the plow hanging off. If not, I don't see how it will not be in the way.

As far as the future goes, all I can say is that I'll be stepping up to a larger boat in a few years. I think that one of the things I'll need to make sure of is a windlass for the big anchor on that one. The CQR can migrate to the new boat then, if I haven't traded it in for something smaller after having some difficulties hauling that 60-70#'s of steel up one day. I can just imagine it stuck in a little crack in some ledge 50' down.

After all these posts, I am feeling much better about how to anchor & I really appreciate that!

Next, I'll need a little advice on repairing the fiberglass deck. (I noticed some rust stains at a couple of the life line stantions and see where others had been scooted over some and there's been a little patching. I've never done that before, but, since I plan to paint her before next season, I think I should figure that out pretty soon.)

Thanks for all the help you guys!

Dan
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:22   #53
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

As long as you're feeling strong, Dan. And you've got all winter to figure out how to secure the anchor on the bow.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:26   #54
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

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I'm going to install that 45# CQR anchor over the winter - have to look at a roller for it and will, hopefully, be able to secure the anchor to it and keep it out of the way of the jib (and keep it from damaging the boat!).

I'll get atleast 50' of chain - either 1/4" anchor or 3/16" stainless - & replace the line with some 1/2" a couple hundred feet long.
50 feet of 1/4" chain weighs about 36lbs. So in moderately deep water you would be pulling up about 80 lbs.

The 50 feet of chain actually does not significantly increase the ultimate holding power of your ground tackle. If you decide to keep the #45 CQR, I would suggest getting only about 15 ft of chain, for the total weight of "only" ~55 lbs. This would provide more than sufficient holding power for your boat and it would be a lot easier on your back.
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Old 10-10-2012, 22:16   #55
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

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Stainless chain is crazy expensive and generally a weird affectation only seen on megayachts. . . .
.
Stainless CAN be crazy expensive. But yes you are right, it is mostly a megayacht affectation.

Price comparisons
1/4" G40 anchor chain:
$4.75/ft - 134', Gr 40 Windlass Anchor Chain
$7.49 ACCO http://www.wmjmarine.com/anchor---do...FQSCQgodT0MAcA
$4.42/ft ACCO http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...igh+Test+Chain

1/4" BBB Anchor Chain:
$3.87/ft - 141' - BBB* Windlass Anchor Chain
$4.99 ACCO - http://www.wmjmarine.com/anchor---do...FQSCQgodT0MAcA
1/4" 316L Stainless G4 anchor chain
$10.33/ft - 50' and longer - 1/4" US Stainless Chain
$4.62 ACCO http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...Windlass+Chain

1/4" G43/High-Test Hot Dipped Galvanized
$1.30/ft 400ft Grade 43 - Hot Dipped Galv. - tulsa chain low carbon chain
$1.70 - 130' Grade 40 Hot Dipped Chain

3/16" 316L Stainless Chain
$3.49 - 50' and longer, Made in France, SWL830 - 1/4" US Stainless Chain
$7.46 - US made, SWL930 - Unicorn Stainless Inc.
$3.52 - SWL1200 - Type 316L High Test Chain - tulsa chain stainless steel
$4.24 - 20'min swl800 Safeland Industrial Supply Inc.-- Chains & Chain Related Products-(S6CHN3)Stainless Steel 316 Proof Coil Chain
$4.25 - 500'min swl1200 3/16" Stainless Chain

The upshot here is that if you want anchor chain of any sort you will pay more for it.

If you just want chain that would be acceptable for use in seawater (316L stainless or Hot Dip galvanized) but is not sized for a windlass you can get it a lot cheaper.

Unless the OP wants to go offshore an SWL of 800 is acceptable for his boat.

As far as weight goes, 100' of 3/16" would weigh about 30-35lb.

A 45lb anchor is vast overkill. 35lb would be really big.
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Old 10-10-2012, 23:28   #56
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

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Originally Posted by Muscongus View Post
So far, the anchorages I've seen have had 10 - 20' at low tide, which would put it at 18 - 28' at high, I believe (I've been lead to believe, anyway).

At this point, I don't think I'd have much trouble hauling the CQR up (by the way, it is a genuine CQR) - simple enough to one hand it into my pick-up, for instance.
in actuality its not really the 40# of anchor and the 40# of chain you are pulling up.
So for example: in 20' of water with 5:1 scope You are pulling all the boat through 100' of water - to the anchor - usuallly against the wind and current.
Then you get to the easy part - pulling the anchor and chain straight up.
Add to this a 15 knot breeze and some current....and you have a bit of work cutout for you.

there have been times where i've needed to use a primary winch to ease the load (no windlass) or carefully idle the motor in forward gear.
this is with a 22# danforth and 30' of chain on a 30' boat.
I have some doubt i could install a 45# CQR up on the bow without interfering with something. just not enough room.

another thing i managed to figure out: how to measure the rhode as you are setting it. i've tried marking in various ways and it just doesn't work for me so I don't bother. i have an automatic measuring device - its called the length of the deck.
in preparation to anchoring I pull enough line out from the bow locker down the side starboard deck to the cockpit (and the return) an automatic 30' chain (which i don't drag on the deck)+ 25' x 2 of line = 80'. I use this for an initial set and adjust from there. the added benifit is i know the line is sorted and won't get hung up on something coming out of the pipe. something i need to resolve.

I would suggest anchoring under sail. one day you will need to do this and it's actually fun.
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Old 11-10-2012, 00:34   #57
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

As far as going up one size over the recommendations I agree but you need to be careful what you wish for.

I recently upgraded from a Delta 55lb to the new Manson "Boss" 60lb (sizing chart said 45lb so this is one size up from that). I hadn't actually seen the anchor until it was delivered.

When you look at the attachment remember that these two anchors - drawn to the same scale - are only 5lbs (approx 2kg) different in weight.

The difference in size derives from the way the weight is distributed.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:42   #58
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

Dan, You have gotten lots of good, and remarkably, non-conflicting advice. I have only a couple of observations.
No one has said anything about matching your scope to those of adjacent anchored vessels. If you're in a tight cove with several other boats, and you're being super conservative and setting a 10:1 scope while everyone else is at 5:1, you will be meeting the neighbors when the tide changes at 0130.
The other is about anchor size, if you can pick the thing up (not in the parking lot, but from your boat with the wind blowing) without making wheezing sounds, then go for it. There is, IMHO, no such thing as too much anchor for a boat based on weight and length. Too big because of windlass or mounting concerns, sure, but not just because of the weight/length thing.
Finally, chain is your friend, and nylon is chains friend.
I anchor a 75', 110 ton boat in a different anchorage every night for 5 months each year. I have a 650# stockless on all 1" cross linked chain. My maximum scope is 3:1 and, I don't drag. Ever. I also have a giant hydraulic windlass and a fire hose chain washing system.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:24   #59
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

Muscongas,

Below are two links. Bethandevans are Beth Leonard and Evans starzinger, two blue water cruisers with more miles under their keel than most of us will ever sail. Evans has a section on anchoring. It is not long, but extremely concise will tell you most everything you will need to know.

Peter Smith is the inventor of the Rocna anchor and therefore he has a natural affinity for Rocna. His website discussions on anchoring are the most complete discussions I have been able to find. If you read them you will understand everything about anchoring.


Beth & Evans
PeterSmith.net.nz: anchors & anchoring, photos from Patagonia & Antarctica

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it so I will. If you use only chain, you will need to mount a snubber. Go to a mountain climbing store and buy some rope there. Climbers ropes are very elastic and strong. How long should a snubber be? Here's where we can get a discussion going. I aim for a length equal to the depth of the water I'm anchoring in, or longer.

And always buy a bigger anchor than the manufacturers recommend. Twice the recommended size is good (although you may need a strong back). If you use a combination of chain and rope, you can think about using one of winches to haul the rope part of the scope up. That will help a little.

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Old 11-10-2012, 02:44   #60
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Re: Anchoring Advice?

In my experience, the amount of muscle strength needed to pull out an anchor sometimes is double the weight of anchor and chain. So if you have a 45# anchor and 30# chain, then you are lifting 70# in the parking lot. On the boat, with wind and current, and mud, it might take as much as 140 pounds of muscle strength.

After using that anchor for a year, I think you will either stop using the boat, or else use another anchor. You could easily trade that anchor for a complete set up of a 25# CQR with 50' of chain and bow roller even steven. Then you have a system that works very well, and is manageable.

Another thing to think about which I have seen anyone discuss is what happens if you are hurt or something and you can not do the work of pulling up the anchor, what then? Your crew should also be able to break out the anchor, can your wife handle that kind of work? That is a real safety factor to look long and hard at.
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