Amel Supermaramu vs Santorin

[alsail]

Hi everyone. I am in the market to buy "the boat", the one that I wanna keep for a long time. After owning a sail catamaran , chartering various Jeanneaus/ Beneteaus and reading about different options I decided to choose from Amel Supermaramu 52ft and Amel Santorin 46ft. I need help from people that know the 2 boats.
1. How big are the difference between expenses with maintenance?
2. The boats look exactly the same but the size. Is it worth the extra $$$ for a super?
We are a family of four. We wanna do cruising but the boat would also be a day skipered charter in NewZealand.
Thank you.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Howdy and Welcome Aboard CF!

The Amel boats are some of my favorites to see. I have not sailed on one yet, but hope to do so in the future (if anyone needs Crew). I have read about them, studied them for years, and like what I see in the various models.

Here are some previous discussions about the Santorin model:
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...rin&gsc.page=1

And the Super Maramu
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...amu&gsc.page=1

And a single thread discussion loaded with opinions on the various models:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ls-137037.html

Good luck on your boat hunt, and Bon Voyage on the Forum and on the seas.

[boom23]

I believe the Super Maramu is the most popular Amel model, so far...

There must be a reason.

[Sojourner]

Well they are not at all exactly the same size...I believe the Mango is the same length, but even that is narrower due to the age of its design. But the Santorin is 46'. Those extra feet make a world of difference, and of course beam as well. Since my family consists of 3 people, no kids but 3 cats, we chose the biggest one we could find... I think for a family of 4, you'd appreciate the room on the SM.

I wrestled with the different models before buying the SM, and then wrestled some more with newer or older SMs. As regards maintenance, here's the thing: Many major systems need to be replaced/overhauled/upgraded every 10 years or so, so it depends on what the previous owner invested. I saw a 1997 SM that was technically 6 years newer than the one I bought, but the seller had not upgraded the electronics, the rigging was clapped out, the upholstery needed renewing, the dodger was moldy....so that would have taken a bunch of cash after the sale to bring it up to a certain standard. The 91 I ended up buying had been upgraded in every way, new sails, rigging, electronics, so it will need much less maintenance for the next decade, making it the better buy. Amels are pretty bulletproof in terms of basic structure, make sure the innards and machinery are updated and that'll let you know how much maintaining you'll be doing.

[alsail]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Well they are not at all exactly the same size...I believe the Mango is the same length, but even that is narrower due to the age of its design. But the Santorin is 46'. Those extra feet make a world of difference, and of course beam as well. Since my family consists of 3 people, no kids but 3 cats, we chose the biggest one we could find... I think for a family of 4, you'd appreciate the room on the SM.

I wrestled with the different models before buying the SM, and then wrestled some more with newer or older SMs. As regards maintenance, here's the thing: Many major systems need to be replaced/overhauled/upgraded every 10 years or so, so it depends on what the previous owner invested. I saw a 1997 SM that was technically 6 years newer than the one I bought, but the seller had not upgraded the electronics, the rigging was clapped out, the upholstery needed renewing, the dodger was moldy....so that would have taken a bunch of cash after the sale to bring it up to a certain standard. The 91 I ended up buying had been upgraded in every way, new sails, rigging, electronics, so it will need much less maintenance for the next decade, making it the better buy. Amels are pretty bulletproof in terms of basic structure, make sure the innards and machinery are updated and that'll let you know how much maintaining you'll be doing.

So it's not like the maintenance difference is proportional to size....machinery electronics and rigging should be about same?

[Sojourner]

I don't know off the top of my head the differences in sail dimensions and various corollary equipment (furlers etc)... if they used beefier furlers for instance, of course larger will be a little more expensive. I'm pretty sure many of the other systems would be of similar size/makes/models, so those would be about the same...

[alsail]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I don't know off the top of my head the differences in sail dimensions and various corollary equipment (furlers etc)... if they used beefier furlers for instance, of course larger will be a little more expensive. I'm pretty sure many of the other systems would be of similar size/makes/models, so those would be about the same...

Yeah that 's what I thought. Thank you mate. Any particular issues u recommend I should look for when I buy it?

[Sojourner]

I'd get a surveyor specializing in Amels for starters... they have some fairly unique systems. There's a guy out of Texas who is a savant when it comes to Super Maramus, Bill Rouse. He does remote photo consultations for prepurchase as well, not to replace an onsite survey, but to supplement it. He gets you to take hundreds of photos of the boat and gives detailed comments on each component...I used him when I bought mine.

http://www.amelschool.com/

[alsail]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I'd get a surveyor specializing in Amels for starters... they have some fairly unique systems. There's a guy out of Texas who is a savant when it comes to Super Maramus, Bill Rouse. He does remote photo consultations for prepurchase as well, not to replace an onsite survey, but to supplement it. He gets you to take hundreds of photos of the boat and gives detailed comments on each component...I used him when I bought mine.

http://www.amelschool.com/

Thanks a lot man.

[Sojourner]

Hey, my pleasure! Either boat is gonna be awesome, so welcome to the family

[mikecambrai]

I have sailed on many boats over the past 50 years. Some of them were great in harbour entertaining friends, but I would never step foot out of the harbour in them. Going to sea, you need absolute confidence in a yacht. Whatever the seas threw at you, you need to be assured that the yacht will look after you. I have sailed through the Med in a Super maramu, and although we were in interesting weather, the boat looked after us well and I never had any fear. Quite long and deep waves, up the hills at 3 knots and down the hills at 7 knots, never a slam or a missed footing.
I seem to remember that AMels are built in Biscay, so if they are built for the seas there then they will be good for anywhere. I certainly felt so comfortable in the Super, with never a worry.

[alsail]

Originally Posted by mikecambrai

I have sailed on many boats over the past 50 years. Some of them were great in harbour entertaining friends, but I would never step foot out of the harbour in them. Going to sea, you need absolute confidence in a yacht. Whatever the seas threw at you, you need to be assured that the yacht will look after you. I have sailed through the Med in a Super maramu, and although we were in interesting weather, the boat looked after us well and I never had any fear. Quite long and deep waves, up the hills at 3 knots and down the hills at 7 knots, never a slam or a missed footing.
I seem to remember that AMels are built in Biscay, so if they are built for the seas there then they will be good for anywhere. I certainly felt so comfortable in the Super, with never a worry.

I still Didn't sail one yet but I read only good things about it. Seaworthy is the word that comes anytime you ask about Super Maramu. I had a 32 ft catamaran but I will never buy one again. I looked at a lagoon,....it looks like a brick.
Hey , how is Super Maramu up wind? I know a sketch is not great up wind but is it that bad?

[Emouchet]

Remember that Mister Amel, the founder of the company had vision impairment.
So, it was paramount for him to get excellent design to keep him safe on the boat.

[mikecambrai]

Sailing close to the wind is never going to be as good on a ketch as a Bermudan rig. Better to drop the mizzen and set the main to best advantage. But unless you are racing is just isn't a problem. Having a mizzen makes the sails smaller and easier to handle for social cruising, setting the mizzen at anchor gives greater comfort, and they really do look rather nice.
It's personal choice which has advantages for family cruising rather than racing.

[alsail]

Originally Posted by mikecambrai

Sailing close to the wind is never going to be as good on a ketch as a Bermudan rig. Better to drop the mizzen and set the main to best advantage. But unless you are racing is just isn't a problem. Having a mizzen makes the sails smaller and easier to handle for social cruising, setting the mizzen at anchor gives greater comfort, and they really do look rather nice.
It's personal choice which has advantages for family cruising rather than racing.

I have never sailed a ketch, but I understand their advantages. All I hope is that they sail better upwind than a catamaran. I discovered going to weather in a cat is the most uncomfortable situation I have been(sailing or motoring) . Using the boat in NZ, you can't avoid going to wind, so comfort in that situation is paramount for me. The speed is not that important, unless she's gonna be a real pig.