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Old 04-02-2011, 03:43   #16
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Jeanneaus appear to be made not for yachtsmen but for yachtsmens non sailing wife. Its like they designed the boat to be soooo simple that she cant break a nail or work up a sweat. Eg in mast furling ( a concept that frightens me)

Having delivered and sailed on a number of Jeanneaus, the above remarks are obviously made by somebody whoese never sailed them

The 45DS to my undersatdning was never offered with teh standard main, Ive taken teh in mast one through some big offshore shores, excellant sea boat, handles well sea kindly. Good setup below. Excellant all rounder, loads of space in that big aft cabin under teh aft deck, mind you not much height

Jeanneaus is the performance/upmarket end of beneteau, was sailing the new 42i ( which is the DS type underbody), very fast boat.

The in mast on the jeanneau is good, maintain it like everything else and it will give years of enjoyment.

Go for it, dont listen to the naysayers, most of whom havent a clue.

Dave
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:10   #17
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Originally Posted by earthbm View Post
I guess I am looking for ways to convince myself that Jeanneau is the right boat. Please help.

If you like it, it's the right boat! That's all it come down to.

And in end I bet you like furling main.
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:30   #18
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What about boom furling if you don't like mast furling?
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:06   #19
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Yes, exactly -- furling mains just have a boltrope sewn into the luff of the sail.
That's a given. So my point it, that sail can't be modified to accept sliders and those sliders go into the slot, thereby becoming a conventional sail?

Obviously I'm not looking at the mast or its slot, so perhaps completely unworkable. I dunno. From my keyboard here it works pretty well.

But I agree with other post here, as much as I also agree with the OP. I wouldn't choose an in-mast furler, but I might grow to like it if I had the chance.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:17   #20
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That's a given. So my point it, that sail can't be modified to accept sliders and those sliders go into the slot, thereby becoming a conventional sail?

Obviously I'm not looking at the mast or its slot, so perhaps completely unworkable. I dunno. From my keyboard here it works pretty well.
depending on the age of 45DS, several spar manufacturers were used, some have a spare slot , some dont. Also becuase you have to use the small conventional plastic slides, theres a lot of friction, then theres all the extra string that has to be run, reef lines etc. Really this is a big job and requires a mast replacement, deck organisers etc. Why bother , the DS was designed as a family cruiser, and to have in-mast. It works well, leave it alone.

Dave
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:32   #21
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Having delivered and sailed on a number of Jeanneaus, the above remarks are obviously made by somebody whoese never sailed them

The 45DS to my undersatdning was never offered with teh standard main, Ive taken teh in mast one through some big offshore shores, excellant sea boat, handles well sea kindly. Good setup below. Excellant all rounder, loads of space in that big aft cabin under teh aft deck, mind you not much height

Jeanneaus is the performance/upmarket end of beneteau, was sailing the new 42i ( which is the DS type underbody), very fast boat.

The in mast on the jeanneau is good, maintain it like everything else and it will give years of enjoyment.

Go for it, dont listen to the naysayers, most of whom havent a clue.

Dave
Thanks Dave. In fact part of the frustration comes from a Bene 46, with the battened main, just being snatched from under my nose... my perception of Bene/Jeanneau is similar to that of Ford/Lincoln or Chevy/Buick. Which makes Jeanneau targeted at the older end of the crowd, and I like to think of myself and at the other end.

I described the dislike of in-mast furling main in emotional terms. Specifically what I don't like is that it is against every intuition about aerodynamics. Can't get the right wing-like profile (shape), no roach means the upper 10 feet of the mast and sail are just there to pull the rest of the sail up, heavier rig up on top (at least because it's higher) for no performance gain = less righting moment in bobbing...

Is there any data to see the performance loss? Is 0.5kt mentioned earlier accurate? On average or top speed?
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:52   #22
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PS: god I just read my post more then my usual amounts of errors, must take the medicines really I must.

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Which makes Jeanneau targeted at the older end of the crowd, and I like to think of myself and at the other end.
My experience in europe is exactly teh opposite ,as the are faster and more performance orientated, lots of racers buy Jeanneaus to cruise in. You should see the specs on the "performance" pack on the 42i, the thing goes like hot snot. ( battened main).

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I described the dislike of in-mast furling main in emotional terms. Specifically what I don't like is that it is against every intuition about aerodynamics
Sure sure, but its not really relevant, theres more then enough drive from the main and Jenny anyway.

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Is there any data to see the performance loss? Is 0.5kt mentioned earlier accurate? On average or top speed?
II have only anecdotal experience, I blew the doors of a battened main beneteau with the DS on a nice reach in the Canaries one year. 0,5Kts is way under the noise threshold. Ive never seen a DS with battened mains anyway so I dont think theres a direct comparison, id say its non-existent, a dirty bottom would make more difference.

Its a good solid , fast dependable boat, take you around the world it would

Dave
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:05   #23
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From all that I have read they work fine if maintained just like everything else on a boat. Personnal ownership tends to sway opinions more than practical experience. If the rest of the boat suites then what is the chance of finding a boat that has no negatives, probably zero so it sounds like you may have found your boat.
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:06   #24
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

... some have a spare slot , some dont. Also becuase you have to use the small conventional plastic slides, theres a lot of friction, then theres all the extra string that has to be run, reef lines etc. Really this is a big job and requires a mast replacement, deck organisers etc. Why bother , the DS was designed as a family cruiser, and to have in-mast. It works well, leave it alone.
Your last line is a good one. But everything before that makes the conversion sound easy, not difficult.... until all of the sudden you throw in the mast replacement. Flat confused as to why you threw that in, but agreed. If mast replacement was reguired, it would be a big job.

If either the extra slot or the original slot could receive sliders or a Strong Track, then "all the string" ect would make the conversion slick.

Whether or not it is worthwhile over leavng it with in-mast is another question. If the OP just could not oversome his distain for in-mast, but still found enough about the boat attractive to him, then he might want to know how workable the conversion option might be.
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:31   #25
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What about boom furling if you don't like mast furling?
Boom furling makes so much more sense. I'm not sure why it is not the standard configuration, as opposed to in-mast furling. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

1. With a boom furler, if there is a jam, it's 5 feet off the deck, not 45 feet away.

2. With a boom furler, you can use a fully-battened sail. (Vertical battens are a kludge, IMHO).

3. With a boom furler, you can always get the sail completely down in an emergency.

The downside is that the boom weighs more.

I also see many new boats coming through with "stack packs" for handling the main, and I would prefer that option to in-mast furling as well.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:05   #26
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That's a given. So my point it, that sail can't be modified to accept sliders and those sliders go into the slot, thereby becoming a conventional sail?

Obviously I'm not looking at the mast or its slot, so perhaps completely unworkable. I dunno. From my keyboard here it works pretty well.

But I agree with other post here, as much as I also agree with the OP. I wouldn't choose an in-mast furler, but I might grow to like it if I had the chance.
I dunno. The slot is narrow, and it is in the foil, buried inside the mast, not in or on the mast itself. I've had my furling main up and down once, and it was a lot of work. After releasing the halyard, it doesn't come down by gravity, you have to work it down. It would not be suitable for everyday use, particularly at sea. Whether you might be able to rig some kind of sliders in there, I don't know. The slot is narrow and hard to reach. I somehow doubt it.

Remember also that the rig is designed for a furling main, so the backstay will probably interfere with a roachy main, and the boat will not handle properly -- too much wind pressure up high, too much main area compared to the headsails (weather helm).

You will also have to rig reefing lines.

And you will need a new sail, which is $$$. A sail designed for furling has got no battens and a hollow leech. It would defeat the whole purpose of changing to regular reefing to use that kind of sail.

I'm with Goboatingnow -- leave it alone and enjoy it.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:08   #27
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Boom furling makes so much more sense. I'm not sure why it is not the standard configuration, as opposed to in-mast furling. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

1. With a boom furler, if there is a jam, it's 5 feet off the deck, not 45 feet away.

2. With a boom furler, you can use a fully-battened sail. (Vertical battens are a kludge, IMHO).

3. With a boom furler, you can always get the sail completely down in an emergency.

The downside is that the boom weighs more.

I also see many new boats coming through with "stack packs" for handling the main, and I would prefer that option to in-mast furling as well.
FWIW, I have heard tell that boom furlers, which are not much used these days, are exquisitely sensitive to the angle of the boom, and jam quite a lot more than in-mast furlers.

I have had exactly one jam with my in-mast furler, apparently caused by my own inexperience (the situation has not been repeated). It was unpleasant, and of course advantages 1 and 3 are valuable in such a case. But I guess I would rather have something that jammed never or almost never, even if it were worse when it did jam, than something which jammed frequently, even if dealing with the jam were simpler.

Concerning your advantage 2 -- I think you are right, and in my experience vertical battens are not much used these days.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:15   #28
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Personally, I would favor a roller furling boom, which CAN accommodate full battens. I have circumnavigator friends in Australia, who went the entire cruise with one on their "mostly mainsail driven", 32' Catamaran, and it was wonderful! It was infinitely reefable, and both the center of effort as well as weight moved down as the wind picked up. Even putting the mainsail cover on was just a matter of pulling a line. It REALLY minimized the deck work! It did however have to be installed by the manufacturer or their "agent", (perfectly), and they would not sell it to you otherwise. (IT WAS EXPENSIVE TOO).

Getting away from roller furled or reefed rigs for a moment... My last boat was mostly headsail driven, so didn't need a large roached main. (There was no need, it has hit 19 knots on two occasions!)

The boat's mainsail was drawn with a decidedly hollow leech, battenless main, and rings at the corners. It was more like another jib. The hollow leech, and a tight leech line, kept it from fluttering, except when motoring to windward. The battenless feature made it where the sail could lay against the triangular rig's shrouds when going down wind, and I could quickly snatch it down, even downwind in a gale! It was perfect for that 28' boat.

Now that I have full "round" battens on my current boat, I favor them. I didn't need the 6" of additional roach that they allowed, but I find that being able to motorsail to windward in too light a wind, or too dead on the nose, is quite an advantage. I do however need to keep the batten's "hard spots" totally off of the swept back shrouds, when going down wind and the boom is out. Everything has its pluses and minuses... M.
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:24   #29
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:25   #30
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II have only anecdotal experience, I blew the doors of a battened main beneteau with the DS on a nice reach in the Canaries one year.
I have similar experience. My boat's long waterline (46 feet) and tall rig play a much bigger role than the type of mainsail. In a couple of years sailing in and out of the hot race boat infested Solent, I can't recall ever once having been passed by anyone. I've been somewhat out-pointed (that was probably my lack of skill at sail trim, more than anything else), but even with a dirty bottom my boat with her in-mast furling has got plenty of speed in all conditions, and the stronger the wind, the harder it is for anyone to keep up. Remember, the rig will be taller to compensate.

That Jeanneau, with her bulb keel and performance underbody, will have plenty of performance -- will smoke most any kind of older design boat, regardless of mainsail type. I'm with Goboatingnow -- get some experience, if you like, to see whether you hate it, but my prediction is that you will not.
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