Am I doing this right? Whisker/spinnaker pole question.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Funny thing is not too long ago there was a thread where a great many, especially the experienced came out and said that telescoping poles were junk. OK for day sailing, but won’t last for real passage making.
I too have a line control pole and that got me wondering

I remember that thread. My experience with the telescoping whisker pole is that it works well and lasts as long as you don't abuse it. The problem is that it's easy to abuse, particularly when the wind picks up. I've broken and repaired my Forespar carbon-fiber pole twice now, both times because I was overloading it. In my case, the pole didn't break or buckle, but the control line fittings came apart under heavy load.

For that matter, I've also snapped a heavy-duty carbon-fiber spinnaker pole, but that was because I was carrying too much spinnaker in a gale, rounded down, and dipped the pole. That repair job was much more intensive, involving sleeves and CF fabric and epoxy.

[Don C L]

And keep in mind we are talking about an Albin Vega. I'd want the robustness of the pole to go up with the cube of the boat's length. I don't know where I got that figure, must be in Skene's I know about the aging issue and collapse potential but I do like the adjustability. As far as I know they don't make line control or the tri-reacher that small. I didn't break mine sailing. I dropped it on the dock and broke the jaw off. Probably shouldn't admit that. It was too small anyway. These new ones are "heavy duty" so they must be good! Still to be checked out.

edit: upon reflection for something more bomb proof for a long voyage the spinnaker pole does make sense.. you'd have to pick an intermediate length... it'd be nice to have both

edit again! Ah, ok, I hadn't seen that earlier thread.
FYI: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...le-188622.html

[bill1940]

Seems to me there is a misunderstanding as to the reason for the whisker pole.
in many miles of racing we only used a whisker pole when we were flying the kite shy and the pole was used to keep the brace off the shrouds to minimise chafing. The pressure on the brace holds the whisker pole in place against the mast and when the kite is not shy no whisker pole is necessary and does indeed drop out. There may be other uses but other than the pole being a nuisance when not in use but I never found one.

[Boston Blackie]

I second all the above on need for beef for an offshore whisker pole. My brother-in-law reported ripping the spinnaker pole track right off the mast of a Hinckley 52 with a reefed spinnaker-poled-out #2 jib topsail in a full gale racing Transatlantic.

[Ryban]

I'm glad we're having a healthy debate on the utility and requirements of a whisker pole, but I don't want us to get too off topic.

The pole I have is plenty strong enough, and it's probably the original pole. At the very least, it was manufactured by the same people who made the boom and mast, and it was made in Sweden.

I'll look into alternative fittings, but remember, I'm on an island and parts like that are going to be few and far between. I'll also go check with the Vega group.

[Don C L]

Well it finally occurred to me it may just be a matter of turning the pole around and run that hook into the clew of the sail. I am guessing it has jaws at the other end?

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well it finally occurred to me it may just be a matter of turning the pole around and run that hook into the clew of the sail. I am guessing it has jaws at the other end?

It does, but i don't know if it makes sense the other way around. That hook isn't going to keep the sheets in place, and there also wouldn't be any tie-on point for the control lines.

[Don C L]

Whisker poles on small boats don't usually have guys. I sailed in my old 24 for nearly 10 years with a whisker pole that was a 7 foot length of 2 inch dowel and a bolt stuck in the end and jaws at the other. Take the hook and put it through the clew cringle (grommet hole) of the jib (when it is out) and then attach the jaws to the ring on the mast and see how it behaves. When it is time to remove it, detach the jaws and pull the clew of the luffing jib to you and slide the hook off. It'll be way better than my old garage scraps version!
Sheesh what a senior moment... why'd it take me so long to get that?! Well, it is my first view of an Albin whisker pole.
jt11791 got it first!

[JPA Cate]

Ryban, use the jaw end of the pole on the mast, and the hook down through the clew of the sail.

I have not seen that kind of set up before, but used the way Bill1940 described, it can also serve as a reaching strut to keep the spinnaker guy off the shroud, if you ever use a spinnaker on your boat.

In the other thread, to which Don provided a link, there is a discussion of using the afterguy to stabilize the pole. To do those kinds of things you need a pole with jaws having the proper line attachment places on both ends.

Ann

[FlightPlan]

My thought is that it would make a pretty robust whisker pole, but I don't like the hook at the mast. The loops on each end are probably used to bridle the topping lift. I used to race J-24's and Santana 535's and the poles we used the topping lift was bridled and the foreguy was bridled. You then would trip the Jaws on the afterguy and mast releasing the spinnaker to free fly, and then reattach the jaws of the pole to the old sheet and then the mast as the boat jibes thru the wind. By bridling the pole, you don't have to deal with the weight of it while detaching and attaching the pole ends. It's a beautiful thing when executed correctly and can be done by a two man crew.

[FlightPlan]

This is the arrangement for the bridle/trigger ends of the pole I tried to describe above

[robregje]

Dear Ryban,

About 40+ years ago, when I started inland sailing this was a common setup for a (Dutch) ballonfok or spinaker, btw the hook is upside down.

Especialy usefull when lowering the "spinaker" you let go of the halyard, the pole will move towards the forestay, as soon as there is no morer wind (force ) in the spinaker you can lift the pole and help the spinaker down/towards you. In that way nobody had to be on deck between mast and bow then called "the killing zone"

Cheers Robert

[Aaarrgh]

[QUOTE=Suijin;2524840]I think your mast-end "hook" is supposed to go the other way, inverted, at least as far as it's designed. I've not seen one like that before. At the very least it would keep it from dropping out and would have to lift out.

My exact initial thought!

Aarrrgh!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by bill1940

Seems to me there is a misunderstanding as to the reason for the whisker pole.
in many miles of racing we only used a whisker pole when we were flying the kite shy and the pole was used to keep the brace off the shrouds to minimise chafing. The pressure on the brace holds the whisker pole in place against the mast and when the kite is not shy no whisker pole is necessary and does indeed drop out. There may be other uses but other than the pole being a nuisance when not in use but I never found one.

The device that you are describing is called (at least in the USA) a "reaching strut". It is usually just a bit longer than the athwartship distance between the mast and the shrouds, and is used,, as you describe, to hold the guy (brace) off the shroud and provide a bit better angle to the pole. The strut is a lot shorter than any useful whisker pole, which should be somewhere around the J dimension for the boat.

Now, for the OP: your boat is in a kinda grey area, sizewise. On smaller boats it is easy to manhandle the pole when setting it... I did so easily on my 22 foot trailer sailor. When you get up around 30 feet, that becomes very difficult, so a topping lift is called for. You are in the middle, and without knowing the length and weight of your pole as well as your personal size and strength, it's hard to guess if you will need the help of control lines. Some experimentation on your part will solve that question: if you need it for safely setting the pole then it is surely worth the effort and expense of installing the pole lift.

Jim

[JohnT]

@Ryban - is your pole a whisker pole or is it a spinnaker pole? The two are different and used for different things.

A spinnaker pole is longer than your J and thus extends past your forestay and is used with a spinnaker. It also should be a hell of a lot stronger than a whisker pole as it acts as the tack of the spinnaker, capable of supporting quite large compression loads.

A whisker pole is used to pole out a jib or genoa when running down wind and attaches to the clew of that sail. It does (or should) not be supporting high loads and is thus quite a bit lighter in weight and build. It is normally a slight bit shorter than your J.

My guess with your pole (we do not know its length) is that it is a home-brew whisker pole that you have the wrong way round. The spike goes through the clew of the jib or genoa and the jaw end clamps over the ring at the mast. As I say, it is only a guess - you must let us know if it is longer than your J or shorter than your J - this will determine if it is a spinnaker pole or a whisker pole and thus what end fittings it should have.